solderdude
Administrator
measureutternutter
Posts: 4,882
|
Post by solderdude on Nov 23, 2017 20:11:25 GMT
I measured and listened to the Focal Clear today. My evaluation and measurements are found here: diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/focal/clear/This is a very good headphone albeit an expensive one. For E 1500.- you do get an excellent sounding headphone that really does not need EQ in my opinion and can be driven from portable equipment. This is a lot better than the Elear and maybe even the Utopia in some aspects. An extra option for those looking into the E 1000.- plus category. Focal clearly is making progress here.
|
|
fanda
contributing
Posts: 61
|
Post by fanda on Nov 24, 2017 14:07:35 GMT
Cool. Good to see Focal moving in the right direction, except for price of course. That bass extension with low distortion is very good - a dynamic pair with a 'planar-like' flat curve below 1Khz is a good technological accomplishment.
The channel matching is awful though. The 6Khz (and 12Khz) peaks look troublesome. The 2Khz peak, especially the right channel is very AKG-like - not sure if it is intended or a defect (and thus the reason for channel mismatch).
Did Focal fix the cable issues? The Elear cable was too thick and heavy, iirc.
|
|
solderdude
Administrator
measureutternutter
Posts: 4,882
|
Post by solderdude on Nov 24, 2017 22:17:43 GMT
No complaints about the cables.
Much improved compared to the Utopia/Elear.
It did not sound anything like an AKG for sure.
|
|
fanda
contributing
Posts: 61
|
Post by fanda on Nov 25, 2017 21:29:48 GMT
Oh, I wouldn't expect it to sound like an AKG (the focal is much more linear) - just that the 2K peak is odd and that too with the right channel in particular.
|
|
solderdude
Administrator
measureutternutter
Posts: 4,882
|
Post by solderdude on Nov 26, 2017 8:17:36 GMT
Yes, that surprised me as well. Thoroughly inspected the headphone visually to see if there was something wrong with the pads or so. Re-measured 5 times.
Channel difference remained even after changing positions on the test rig. It seems to be really there.
The one I measured was a demo model and was not for sale. I could not spot the level difference (balance should have shifted a bit) nor did I hear something 'odd'. The clarity was good but not over the top as with AKG. Brains react funny with L-R differences and probably averages tonal response. To change the stereo image the brain looks at phase differences more than amplitude at those frequencies. For lower frequencies amplitude changes are more leading. Below a certain frequency there is no location thing going on at all.
I liked the Clear. Not over the top and 'zingy' as the Utopia. More natural I would say. The Elear I did not like at all and don't get the hype it receives (aside from build quality).
I HOPE the left channel is representative for the Clear and not the right channel.
You can see in the plots the clear sounds clearer than the Elear because there is more 2kHz (where clarity/forwardness resides) and in the left channel it is exactly right. On the right channel it is peaked ... a lot.
I don't see the peak in Judes plots but his treble appears to be over-corrected. I do see more 2kHz presence but am sure Focal would have picked the best headphone and brought that to Jude. In my case it is a demo that is not up for sale.
|
|
fanda
contributing
Posts: 61
|
Post by fanda on Nov 28, 2017 13:32:29 GMT
but am sure Focal would have picked the best headphone and brought that to Jude. Which reiterates the importance of having independent opinion and data. Like your analyses. And Rtings as well, I suppose, since they have a policy of reviewing store purchased samples only.
|
|
fanda
contributing
Posts: 61
|
Post by fanda on Dec 19, 2017 7:24:08 GMT
Looks like it is Focal's turn to partner with Massdrop: "Massdrop x Focal Elex Headphones". It is described as an Elear with some tuning done to have the same target response as the Clear, but at an $800 price point. They also show some measurements (from head-fi) corroborating these claims.
Seems US only though. Won't ship anywhere else... Not even to customers in France even though these headphones will (most likely) be manufactured there.
|
|
solderdude
Administrator
measureutternutter
Posts: 4,882
|
Post by solderdude on Dec 19, 2017 8:23:21 GMT
It looks like the Elex is a cheaper version of the Clear. Has the biggest resemblance with that one (pads mostly) Slightly less bass though. Halving of the price is interesting.
I saw Clear measurements of others which don't have the channel imbalance that the one I measrured had. That one was not for sale though and only for demo purposes.
There are 'mail/package forwarding' services in the USA. You can have one sent there and they ship it globally. So for a small increase in price it will be available worldwide.
|
|
fanda
contributing
Posts: 61
|
Post by fanda on Dec 19, 2017 16:14:23 GMT
Yes, an $800 Clear is a more interesting proposition than the original price. Would still be cautious at least until the first batch of actual production units are measured and reviewed.
While there are shipping services, there is the added uncertainty due to the way massdrop works without a guaranteed shipping date - in this case, it is expected to be Apr 30... -> which makes it upto the customer to actively followup with all the parties rather than a hassle free process.
Edit: Actually shipping is restricted to four countries -> US, Canada, Australia and Taiwan. Not sure what the logic is for those choices.
|
|
|
Post by lobalwarming on Dec 20, 2017 1:28:25 GMT
Is that 450 gram weight correct? A super low mass driver surrounded in a lead frame? Same weight as the HE-6, which were a pain in the neck after ten minutes.
Maybe because I'm a pencil-necked geek, but the 280 gram 650s are my upper weight class limit.
|
|
solderdude
Administrator
measureutternutter
Posts: 4,882
|
Post by solderdude on Dec 20, 2017 5:52:03 GMT
Acc to Focal that's the weight.
The HE6 (early one) is 520 gram.
The Focal is not particularly light weight at all but at the same time did not feel that heavy. It does give it a sense of 'high build quality' when handling them.
|
|
|
Post by mshenay on Dec 20, 2017 23:47:33 GMT
It looks like the Elex is a cheaper version of the Clear.Has the biggest resemblance with that one (pads mostly) Slightly less bass though. Halving of the price is interesting. I saw Clear measurements of others which don't have the channel imbalance that the one I measrured had. That one was not for sale though and only for demo purposes. There are 'mail/package forwarding' services in the USA. You can have one sent there and they ship it globally. So for a small increase in price it will be available worldwide. Not having heard either and only looking at measurements I got that impressions as well. Good to hear your thoughts are in that direction as well I'm curious though what compromises were made to get it down to that price point? Hopefully once others get the first batch in hand and we start getting more measurements and impressions we can get an idea of what the price difference for the Clear actually nets, aside from availability
|
|
fanda
contributing
Posts: 61
|
Post by fanda on Dec 21, 2017 15:55:11 GMT
I'm curious though what compromises were made to get it down to that price point? To be frank, probably very little compromise is actually required to produce these headphones and still make a huge profit at these price points. Manufacturers do not follow a cost+ model of pricing, at least in the premium headphone space. The prices are set at what they think the market can bear. One could say that there is fixed research cost as well as marketing investments that need to be recouped from the sales revenue, and Focal is not really a big company (even though they make premium priced products, their revenue is significantly lower than the big players in this space). That argument would probably be more valid if we were talking about $600 vs $300 rather than $1500 vs $800.
|
|
|
Post by mshenay on Dec 23, 2017 23:34:05 GMT
I'm curious though what compromises were made to get it down to that price point? To be frank, probably very little compromise is actually required to produce these headphones and still make a huge profit at these price points. Manufacturers do not follow a cost+ model of pricing, at least in the premium headphone space. The prices are set at what they think the market can bear. One could say that there is fixed research cost as well as marketing investments that need to be recouped from the sales revenue, and Focal is not really a big company (even though they make premium priced products, their revenue is significantly lower than the big players in this space). That argument would probably be more valid if we were talking about $600 vs $300 rather than $1500 vs $800. I doubt the headphones cost focal $800 to manufactor, but possible that $800 is even to break even. Cover both the manufactor cost, plus what ever potential mark up is needed to cover their over head plus some salary. I'd imagine the sale of the Elex isn't going to fund further research, but I would assume Focal's at least covering their costs 100% with this. Even if the profit is only 1-2% the market exposure might be more worthwhile given the limited production of these units
|
|
fanda
contributing
Posts: 61
|
Post by fanda on Dec 25, 2017 13:47:24 GMT
I doubt the headphones cost focal $800 to manufactor, but possible that $800 is even to break even. Cover both the manufactor cost, plus what ever potential mark up is needed to cover their over head plus some salary. I don't believe Focal would risk just breaking even. One can expect an amazon or google (companies sitting on huge piles of cash) executing a "loss leader" type of strategy to gain market share quickly for any given product. Do remember that while Massdrop gets its cut (probably just like a retailer, 10-20+% of the sale price - maybe more or less; these deals vary a lot), the rest of the distribution chain is much simpler which reduces costs significantly. Knowing the demand in advance also allows optimization of material costs (even down to warranty replacement requirements). The fixed costs (employees, contractors, rent, etc) tend to be amortized over multiple products and while it has some bearing in a campaign like this, it is often substituted with revenue/margin targets instead. Would be very surprising if focal doesn't make a good chunk of profit out of this campaign + the induced sales of their other headphones to impatient customers not willing to wait 4 months. Btw, Tyll has posted his review of Focal Clear. He prefers the Clear over Utopia and Elear, and states that 'Tonal balance is the best I have heard'.
|
|