solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 7, 2018 18:59:44 GMT
Yes, like the HD650 the stereo image is 'narrow' of sorts.
I have a HP50 now which is 'warmish neural' and 'laid back' without lacking too much in the clarity dept. When I have it on for 10 mins or so the HP50 sounds quite 'neutral' and 'full' and not lack in clarity. Then I put on the Beyer COP or HD58X or HD688 (proto) and they all sound too clear and a bot lean ... wait a few minutes and they sound perfectly fine again. Just how I like them. Put on the HP50 ... Too warm and lacking clarity... listen a few songs and sounds 'good' again.
It is incredibly easy to 'fool' yourself.
When comparing headphones I use a reference for a while and switch to the tested headphone. Make quick notes and listen for an extended period. Make notes again. Then make up my mind and write about it.
I think for the money the HD58X with felt mod is an excellent headphone. Not the best .. but excellent for the money
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 7, 2018 19:05:05 GMT
A question for Solderdude I keep forgetting to ask… Instead of using felt on the back of the driver, would taping over the vent and punching different sized holes (smaller) in the tape accomplish the same thing? I have been able to tune some of my iems by doing this. Completely block the existing vent and punch a pinhole in the tape. Audibly it seemed to accomplish a similar result. And apparently by punching holes into the filter paper(?) on the back of Grado drivers can change the bass response of them too Haven't tried it. In the end it is all about limiting the air flow in the right amount. Maybe I will try something like that. It does make sense. It is seen in some drivers as well. Paper covering holes and then in one of them a tiny hole which when covered makes a huge difference. The 'hole' in the Beyerdynamic COP enclosure that makes the difference between closed and setting '1' is very small yet makes 10dB difference in the subbass.
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Post by Mr Trev on Oct 8, 2018 1:38:02 GMT
I seem to remember reading some good reviews about those HP50s (didn't PSB have a nearly identical model too?)
Chatting with another fellow about the 58x and I summed it up that the 58x doesn't really excel at anything particular, but doesn't do anything bad either. I'd say they punch above their price bracket, and out of all the consumer electronic type devices I've purchased over the last couple years, they are the only thing that hasn't left me feeling somewhat let down. On a slight aside, I found a listing for an original pair of 580s for nearly the exact price I ended up paying for the 58x. What's the better deal…
I started wondering about hole punch mods awhile back when some guys on the HF thread were getting a little fixated on the type of felt to use. Started to wonder if it would work to just say "cover the vent completely and punch 3 pinholes in the tape". This would also allow folks to fine tune by varying the amount (or size) of holes. I still have to get around to ordering the parts to make one of the filters too
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 8, 2018 5:10:27 GMT
The HD580 is more 'forward' and has more (to some a bit too much) 'clarity' and 'presence' but also not the midbass hump and lacks subbass = HD600 The HD58X is a bit more 'laid back' and has better bass extension but the 'warmth' of the HD650 but bass is tighter and better extended.
So which is the better deal is subjective. Personally I like the HD58X (with mods) better than the HD58X which to me is a tiny bit too strident and lacks bottom end.
Let me know how it goes with the holes. Be carefull not to punch too deep into the driver. Come to think of it. holes must be punched using non magnetic materials and debree may NOT get into the driver when punching out holes ... hmmm
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Post by lobalwarming on Oct 8, 2018 21:14:05 GMT
Come to think of it...does Senn or MD stock 58X replacement drivers?
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Post by Mr Trev on Oct 9, 2018 1:02:22 GMT
Come to think of it...does Senn or MD stock 58X replacement drivers? Happy Turkey Day lobalwarming! Driver transplant service! What a great idea! You'll make a killing! You know, I never even considered what I'd need to do if these break. I really should look into that. As far as parts go, I'm not even sure if they'd be available ATM. I would think that until the warranty period expires on the first sold models, MD or Sennheiser would be insistent that any issues would have to dealt with through return rather than just selling the parts - just in case said drivers should happen to find their way into somebody's old unloved 650s. But, I could be wrong (it's been know to happen)
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Post by lobalwarming on Oct 9, 2018 2:23:23 GMT
Come to think of it...does Senn or MD stock 58X replacement drivers? Happy Turkey Day lobalwarming! Driver transplant service! What a great idea! You'll make a killing! You know, I never even considered what I'd need to do if these break. I really should look into that. As far as parts go, I'm not even sure if they'd be available ATM. I would think that until the warranty period expires on the first sold models, MD or Sennheiser would be insistent that any issues would have to dealt with through return rather than just selling the parts - just in case said drivers should happen to find their way into somebody's old unloved 650s. But, I could be wrong (it's been know to happen) Happy ThanksSennGiving to you Mr. T. Unloved 650s? That's too cruel a world for my hot little lobes to hear. Senn (Canada) does stock replacement drivers for the 600/650. $80 each. Only slightly twice the price of their replacement pads.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 9, 2018 4:53:42 GMT
Come to think of it...does Senn or MD stock 58X replacement drivers? Excellent question ! Will ask but don't expect an answer.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 11, 2018 19:13:03 GMT
The drivers have a separate order number with Sennheiser. These were specifically designed for the HD58X. When Sennheiser doesn't release a headphone using the very same driver then it is unlikely Sennheiser will stock these parts. Sennheiser makes these in batches on demand so does not have to stock parts (as in driver or parts painted in the Massdrop colors).
Solution .... buy a second one for spare parts or by the time it craps out (maybe even never) buy another headphone that sounds even better ?
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Post by lobalwarming on Oct 11, 2018 20:31:49 GMT
Probably solution #2... because buying 2 pairs from MD (sound unheard) isn't the most appealing option. Unless the 58X is the best $300 headphone...
I've never had a driver failure from manufacturing defects. Tinkering defects... yes that happened. ;-)
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Post by Mr Trev on Oct 11, 2018 22:01:28 GMT
Probably solution #2... because buying 2 pairs from MD (sound unheard) isn't the most appealing option. Unless the 58X is the best $300 headphone... I've never had a driver failure from manufacturing defects. Tinkering defects... yes that happened. ;-) Yah. They are a good headphone, but I don't know if I'd consider them to be "buy a second pair, just in case the first one breaks" good. On the other hand, there have been plenty of folks on the HF thread double dipping. Since the fundamental design of these have been around for a dogs age, I'd have to think that Sennheiser has gotten them pretty bulletproof. Maybe at the lower price there could be reliability issues down the road. We'll just have to see how it plays out
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Post by timezone on Oct 17, 2018 6:54:13 GMT
Hey, I got my HD58X in late last week. They sound really nice. I haven't had as much time to listen to them as I would like and to try different mods with them. I did try making the felt change today and I don't know if it makes a difference for me or not. I had a really tough time (impossible) doing an A/B comparison with only the one pair. So it was really tough for me to tell if there was any difference that I was hearing with the foam removed from the grill or not. Instead of trying to use double-sided tape or foam tape and putting the felt just around the driver hole, I decided to cut out my felt in the same size as the foam and replaced the foam piece in the grill with red felt.
Again, I just had a real tough time ever hearing any difference. I think it looks kind of cool with the red filling the space behind the grill and this gives protection to the driver hole, etc. like the foam did (probably even more than it did..), so think I will just leave it like this.
I'm curious if anyone else tries the felt replacement for the foam in the grill instead of just at the driver hole, what they think of the sound in comparison. I just may not be an audiophile or good of hearing enough to pick-up the differences. Glad I got them as they do sound really good and imagine they will serve me well for a long time.
Not much of a comparison really, but just spent some time listening to these compared to some other headphones I had on hand here. Just some cheap plasticky portable headphones that have a 30mm driver and are 32 ohms. The treble really stuck out on these.. The 58X definitely has a much richer full sound I feel while maybe toning the treble down a bit but giving more clarity overall. Definitely more bass and just more in general. Way more comfortable as well. They are not in the same league at all and shouldn't be compared, but that was what I had on hand. I do have to turn the volume up with the 58X a notch or two higher than the others to power them, but feel that my Pixel XL phone powers them just fine and sound good for me at about 1/2 to 3/4 volume. Also sounded good from a Nvidia SHield controller, my PC, and my Denon receiver. Happy I got them and need to listen more to "break my ears in" to them. :-)
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 17, 2018 8:56:29 GMT
Felt instead of the foam on the grille won't do anything. The felt needs to be over the hole when it is to do something. The room behind the driver is too big to 'do' something. It is all about 'restricting' the air flow through the hole somewhat. When there is nothing covering the hole the air flow is not restricted and has free access to the space behind the driver which is relatively enormous in size.
The foam is only there to protect the driver from dust it has no 'tuning' nor 'anti-reflective' properties at all.
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Post by timezone on Oct 19, 2018 8:38:45 GMT
Okay, I went ahead and did the mod like you show or at least I think I did. I used some small foam tape squares that I cut into smaller pieces and stuck on top of the driver around the hole and then I put down a quarter size piece of my felt over it. I also kept my red felt replacement for the foam in the grill. I think sounds pretty good, but again not able to do a very good A/B comparison so it's hard to compare the change from stock. Like the sound though and also like the looks of the red behind the grill. I like the open look also, but this is kind of different and gives it more protection I think. <blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en" data-id="a/xS7yWSI"><a href="//imgur.com/xS7yWSI"></a></blockquote><script async src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script> link to all images on imgur.com
Well, I find it impossible to insert pics, but think the link does work. Thanks for all the information on the headphones and how to do these mods. Will have to look into the filter mod next!
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Post by Mr Trev on Oct 23, 2018 18:38:33 GMT
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