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Post by fillemondieu on Apr 4, 2018 19:16:32 GMT
Hello, new on this forum, superb content.
i got an gamma 1 dac - CK2III amp - akg k500.
i'm looking for an upgrade. the headphone is 30 years old and is extremely used. straps is hold together with wire... the cable is renewed (nothing special, just to get the signal through); earpads wearn out... so i guess i rather buy a new one then taking this one for another ride.
i'm quite an AKG boy, simply cause the wearing comfort is so high. i like big soundstages and i'm not really a basshead; that said, the AKG's are notorious for very little bass...
a friend of mine has an HD650, with a tube amp.. but i found it to hard clamping (the headphone :-) . soundwise i was quite hooked on my AKG, and after 20 years of AKG sound, you get used to it... the hd650 didn't get an honest chance. red last night that the clamping force can be adjusted.. .
another friend has the stax system; he's a classical trained violin player, and he swears by it. I do like the electrostats, even for loudspeakers. but i wonder if the headphones can take as much physical abuse as an dynamic (headphone dropped of the table.... after 30 years some beating is inevitable when daily used for at least 4h a day... some days up to 12h)
these days i hardly buy new stuff, i always buy second hand.... and i can get my hands on a akg 701 for 80 euro, of a 812 for 500; both new in the box. the price difference is huge. still both a bargain. i also take interest in the sens (650-600-595...) but second handed they are still very pricey...
last night i have red about the EQ-board : just great... also red that the 812 isn't as good as the price tag would suggest. not to detailed in the highs...
so anyone want's to make some comments as to what to buy ? (i might be upgrading the dac and amp) thanks
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 4, 2018 19:40:28 GMT
Hi. Welcome to DIYAH.
One to consider that sells for a pretty good price now is the K713.
Kind of typical AKG but also some similarities in sound with a Sennheiser hd600. Not as tippy perhaps as you’re used to, but the price is really good for what you get.
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Post by fillemondieu on Apr 5, 2018 0:59:08 GMT
thanks,
are you referring to the k712 ? or is the 713 a newer model ?
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Apr 5, 2018 8:22:17 GMT
The K500 is very bass shy. Are you looking for a bass-shy headphone again or a bit fuller sounding.
Consider the Massdrop HD58x (terrible headclamp but can be lowered) but won't be around E 70.- or second hand HD600
K701 is closer to a K500 but less comfy (pads are stiffer) and a bit fuller in the lows. You could consider K612 but all of these have the elastic band problem.
The K812 sounds very different from the K701. K712 (K7XX) is closer to K812 than K701
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 5, 2018 8:31:53 GMT
thanks, are you referring to the k712 ? or is the 713 a newer model ? I’m so sorry. The wonders of an IPad. Yes, I meant the K712. The elastic band problem exists with all of the AKG headphones in this series unfortunately. The bands that support the headband eventually go loose so that the cups droop further down, below your ears. I ended up fixing my k612 in one position with superglue to keep it working for me. The AKG repair was too expensive, so I glued it and bought a K712 as a ‘spare’, but I like it’s sound a lot tbh. The K712 is possibly the smoothest sounding of the bunch. I also have the K702 which as Solderdude says, has slightly less comfortable pads but is a bit more treble focused than the K712. Personally, I think the K712 is a bit more even handed than the others.
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Post by fillemondieu on Apr 5, 2018 23:51:07 GMT
thanks guys for the posts.
i have been reading more on your website, and up until now i have the same thoughts. indeed the k500 is very bass shy, i'm looking for a more balanced sound; what i like about the AKG is comfort, soundstage, detail but decent bass is nice to have.
the elastic bands: ;-) i got the problem too i just fixed that with metal wire... it's bin running for 20 years now like that.
i'm willing to fork out 500 euro for a new headphone... and can get my hands on an k812 for 500... but then it has to be better then it is... at 200 for a new k712 that's just great; the massdrop hd58x for 150 might even the better price/quality ratio.. but i really need all the comfort i can get, i'll read the article of the adjustment of the senns tension again... And the cups of the AKG's are so roomy that is really a joy to wear.
i'm leaning to the k712 (althoug at 80 euro for a brand new k701 is a great bargain)
thanks again.
ps: a friend of mine is looking for a decent closed headphone; i would advice him the k550; but the mods you do, do they also apply to the mkII model ?
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Apr 6, 2018 5:59:38 GMT
The pads of the K550/K551/K553 seem to be unavailable and also wear out a bit too soon. I replaced the elastic bands in my K501 (when I briefly had one). Used eleastic band bought from a craft store. Was relatively easy to replace.
The K712 or Massdrop K7XX might be your best bet. Pads for it have become more expensive than Sennheiser pads. Would stay away from Chinese replacement pads, they alter the sound too much.
Decent closed headphone: I would say a Takstar Pro82 or (when it becomes available) the HD671 + HD681E pads The Takstar is more comfortable but the modified HD671 is a bit better sounding (stock HD671 is not great at all) Sennheiser HD598CS or HD569 are also good closed options but more expensive.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 6, 2018 7:52:41 GMT
I have a K553 and at the moment, the pads are ok, but as Solderdude has said, they aren’t long lasting types and the real ones are no longer available. Trouble is that what is available may then change the sound since originals are no longer supplied. Great pity. They are nice pads too.
I have seen write ups on the k812 and tbh, they haven’t been great. Actually, they put me off getting one when I got the k712.
To me, the k712 is close(ish) to a Sennheiser HD600 but less ‘hemmed in’ sounding with a wider soundstage. The Senn can sound like there’s a velvet curtain around you. More spread out. Light sounding in the bass, but goes lower than you would think from first listening. My first impression when I heard it was that it sounded like a toned down AKG with less edge in the treble. Same lack of bass that many show.
However in the long term, it has produced some really low sounds but in a more subtle way than other headphones. The bass is there, but not in your face.
It seems quite even in frequency response to me and doesn’t really need a lot of tweaking. As you say, really comfortable with those big pads.
I got mine on a special offer quite a long time ago now, and since those days, I’ve noticed that the price dropped a long way. The price asked for it now makes it a great buy to me.
I also have a K702. It has a slightly more ‘brittle’ sound to its treble. It’s not nasty, but borders on too edgy at times. It also seems to produce a slightly harder attack on bass. The K712 is more subtle but the K702 is perfectly acceptable; especially at the lower price.
My preference is the K712 but I could live with the K702 as well. If budget was a problem, the K702 is good, but I do prefer the K712 myself.
I also have the Takstar Pro82 (the older version) and an Audio Technica msr7 (plus various others) The Pro82 has a lovely, balanced sound that is smooth and quite rounded. Great for relaxed listening and doesn’t squash your head to enable good isolation. The MSR7 squeezes harder but also has deeper pads so your ears are well contained inside. Sound is more analytical with a steelier sounding treble than the Pro82.
My ears tells me that the Audio Technica is a more detailed listen while my head seems to enjoy the luxurious east of the Takstar sound. The Takstar is kind of similar to the Sony MSR1a without the Sony bloom in the bass.
The Audio Technica is more similar sounding to the AKG’s while the Audio Technica is closer to the Sony warmness. However, the Sony with a Kameleon filter in line is virtually the Pro82 in terms of timbre. Solderdude hit the Sony dead on with eq with the Kameleon module that he designed.
I picked those two because you are keen on the AKG sound perhaps? The Audio Technica is the closest in sound while being closed. The K553 is a really balanced closed headphone, but the lack of pads available give it a a limited life. The stock pads are pretty soft and I was a bit miffed to find out that they are no longer available.
Means after a year or two, they might become defunct unless you’re willing to accept a drop in quality by using replacement pads from another company. If not a drop in quality, maybe a different timbre.
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Post by fillemondieu on Apr 7, 2018 0:47:11 GMT
i'm gonna bite the bullet, and get a sennheiser.... change of scene... i'll have to give it a try. i'll order a hd6xx at massdrop. if it is not my thing, then i sell it off again... thought i gotta give it a fair chance. akg and senns both are 200 euro... so that's not a decision maker. probably need to get used to the senns... i have red to much articles where they compared both, and the senns won it every time, so i must give in. again i know it's not the correct forum, but i will power it up with a CK2III amp and a gamma 1 dac... might get a gamma 2 and maybe a beta22... what would you suggest ? source is pc via usb (not the best, but that's what i have, foobar on wine/linux) thanks guys
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Apr 7, 2018 7:10:43 GMT
Its the correct forum for any amp, source and headphone !
The (measurable) differences with sources are many factors smaller than that of any headphone. Personally I would only upgrade a DAC if: A: It can't play what you want it to play (you need more formats or higher bitrates) B: If it is defective or has driver problems
You will have to bend the metal parts of the HD6XX to adjust the clamping force.. it is fierce out of the box.
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Post by fillemondieu on Sept 8, 2018 6:24:36 GMT
hello, i want to report back to you guys. it's been a while, but i managed to get my hands on a fine headphone. i was looking at the massdrop hd600 but the shipping costs and import made it quite expensive... and then when all hope was lost, an AKG k712 pro popped up for 80 euro. new... so i got me this one. i'm happy with it, it is certainly an upgrade from the k500 no doubt, which i loved for the soundstage, but was a bit basshy... the k712 pro is indeed very well balanced. and very comfy.
i wander: are there any mods i can do ?
and second: i'm looking for a decent closed headphone. from what i read the tasktar 82 pro is nice. but i can only find at ebay for 60 dollar... is that correct ? plus i wonder how much i would have to pay to get a better sound ? i was looking at the k553 but the non-original earpads (after wearing out) put me off a little bit. if need to fork out 200 euro, for a small amount of quality increase, i'll let it be and stick with the pro82.
thanks guys. i know i don't bring much to the table when it comes down of how i experience the sound, but at the moment i'm listing at spotify a lot, and the flac vs mp3 is quite impressive, so i'm not doing the headphone justice right now... besides i love a decent sound, but i don't have a lot to compare to.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Sept 8, 2018 7:50:17 GMT
I alternate between the Senn Momentum Over Ears which are warm sounding, the Sony MDR1a which I like and has a significantly boosted mid bass, and an Audio Technica MSR7 which has a cooler sound for mobile.
Out of these three, I think I prefer the Audio Technica still. All not that cheap but if you are coming from a K712 which I also have, then the coolness of the AT might appeal to you. (As smaller headphones)
Full sized, I use a Beyer Dynamic dt770 Pro. 250 ohm which has a very deep bass. Almost sub woofer like with a sharp treble. However, mine is eq’d via a specialised amplifier which makes it drop dead gorgeous. I also use a very expensive Fostex th900 which also has a big hearted bass.
I also have a Takstar Pro 82 believe it or not. They are good but for some reason, I use that one less than the others. I’m not certain why either. It has a bass that can be adjusted although the only two sensible options are 1 and 2. Setting 3 is way to fat. They are comfortable and have a good, clean sound. I’m not certain why I feel this, but I listen and think that something is missing. (It’s not, but I get that feeling) It’s kind of like the feeling of listening to something that doesn’t really resolve as much detail, but they are superficially really good sounding. Tone is great.
For the money (like the Takstar microphones) they are terrific value and there really isn’t anything else around that gets close, so that might well be the one to go for. It’s not perfect, but then again, neither are any of the others that I mentioned. Build is quite good. On mine, the adjusters are a bit too loose but then again, it’s quite a cheap headphone. At that price you quoted, it’s a great buy.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Sept 9, 2018 10:00:42 GMT
I really like a (somewhat modified) Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro which I recently ran into. Don't like it that much with stock pads but slap on some DT770 pads (choose the black version for looks ?) and it becomes one of the better and affordable closed headphones with decent outside attenuation. Below the response with the modifications and pads in the '2' setting (you can vary the amount of bass): Below the COP (now COPP ?) with grey DT770 pads (EDT770V) Now it's called Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro PlusThe plus part is an additional cable for phones (with mic) + 16 custom shields. Otherwise they are the same. They cost around Euro 150 (can get them for lower sometimes) and need to add EDT770VB pads for around Euro 24.-
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Post by fillemondieu on Sept 19, 2018 15:22:59 GMT
thanks guys. i need a fullsize headphone, over the ears, nonething else has enought comfort for me.
mmm, could be a difficult choice, the dt770 or the custom one plus. price is almost the same... to be honest, i haven't heard them, they look a decent build... so i'm just following your lead here guys.
beside that:
i would like to entertain the idea of buying an deq2496... please don't shoot me. i know you are spending hours and hours on developing an analogue system to EQ the headphones. but there are some points to be made in my case.
1)my dac is gone 2)i run a fullrange speaker which has no top end en no bass... we all know that this is how things go with fullrangers... but maybe the deq2496 can help me there too. 3)i could eq all kind of headhpones with only 1 devices and investment.
or is the quailty for an analog EQ so mucht better. i know i touch at the heart of what you are doing, i don't wanna be rude, but please enlighten me, and tell me if it is a poor choice or not.
thanks kind regards fillemon
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Sept 19, 2018 19:27:15 GMT
With EQ it depends on what you want to EQ and above all how much gain is needed at certain frequencies.
When using sharp digital filters you can have ringing (and pre-ringing) in the audible band. When using a gentle EQ where you just add some bass or remove a wide hump or a treble peak digital will work just fine. Having presets and knowing what you are doing helps greatly here. Behringer sells quality products for a low price. As this one takes analog in and has lots of functionality it seems like a very viable option for desktop equipment.
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