twgib
contributing
Posts: 59
|
Post by twgib on Oct 19, 2018 5:00:03 GMT
I was wondering if the HD650 can be modded to bring out the treble and make it similar in response to the HD58X? I know some have expressed their thoughts that the 58X is near a ideal response but I have a 650 already laying around and would like to try my hand at modding that instead!
|
|
solderdude
Administrator
measureutternutter
Posts: 4,882
|
Post by solderdude on Oct 19, 2018 8:33:11 GMT
I don't think they can be modified to sound exactly the same. The drivers and membranes are quite different
You can get the midbass hump a bit lower by adding more foam behind the hole (there is usually 2 to 3 foam discs over the hole in the driver) The treble response can't be modified to sound the same. The HD58X has a driver resonance at 5kHz which the HD650 does not have. You also cannot create a similar 'dip' around 2.5kHz with passive mods only.
|
|
twgib
contributing
Posts: 59
|
Post by twgib on Oct 20, 2018 2:05:57 GMT
These results are interesting from 'Hands' on SBAF. Frans, may I ask for your thoughts on these measurements? They make it seem like the HD6XX/650 is the superior headphone...
|
|
solderdude
Administrator
measureutternutter
Posts: 4,882
|
Post by solderdude on Oct 20, 2018 7:22:43 GMT
I would not call them interesting but rather different. Tyler stuffs small mics in his ears and feels his measurements are 'accurate' to what he hears. They don't look like any other measurements out there and with good reason. Above 7kHz his measurements roll-off, which in itself should ring some bells. When looking at the lower side of the freq range it would appear as though he has an early prototype in hand(s) Here's Judes comparison: (judes uses a HATS with artificial ear) Jude 20Hz the HD58X has +2dB bass, Tyler says -2dB (= 4dB difference), me = +2.5dB, Marv +1dB Jude 2kHz 1dB diff, me 1dB, Tyler = 4dB dif, Marv 1dB Jude 4kHz 3dB diff, me 3dB, Tyler = 5dB diff, Marv 4dB Jude 5kHz 3dB diff, me 1dB, Tyler = 3dB diff, Marv 2dB Jude 6kHz 0dB diff, me +1dB, Tyler = 5dB diff, Marv 0dB Jude 8kHz 1dB diff, me 3dB, Tyler = 5dB diff, Marv 4dB Do I hear these that different in the upper mids? No... the HD650 obviously does have more upper mids but not that much. Does the HD650 have more bass extension ? No it doesn't. Take everyone's measurements for what they are... I feel Tyler's attempts are amusement for those who want to see something different from other measurements. Persoanlly I have never considered any of his measurements as a serious attempt, but am sure most folks at SBAF will disagree.
|
|
twgib
contributing
Posts: 59
|
Post by twgib on Oct 20, 2018 16:34:43 GMT
Thank you very much for your honest opinion Frans! Do rear damping mods on the HD650 lift the high treble and or low bass at all?
|
|
solderdude
Administrator
measureutternutter
Posts: 4,882
|
Post by solderdude on Oct 20, 2018 21:19:52 GMT
They will only lower the midbass hump. But as a side effect the lower bass is heard a bit better and the uppermids and treble are relatively lifted a bit. So lowering the midbass hump effects the whole sound sig while physically it only lowers the midbass/warmth a bit.
|
|
twgib
contributing
Posts: 59
|
Post by twgib on Oct 20, 2018 21:36:44 GMT
That's interesting that you mention that, so is a foam rear damping modded HD650 sound very similiar to a HD600? Aren't the upper mids already emphasized comapred to the HD58X so adding to them might not be a good thing? It starting to sound to me like the HD58X modded is the best all of worlds in terms of sound signatures available at the moment from Sennheiser.
|
|
solderdude
Administrator
measureutternutter
Posts: 4,882
|
Post by solderdude on Oct 21, 2018 8:54:34 GMT
Some folks feel the HD650 is the 'better' one and should be as it is much higher in price.
To ME the HD650 is a bit less 'tight' in the lows and has a bit more 'presence/clarity'. The HD58X is a bit 'tighter' in the lows and has less 'presence/clarity' and thus is a bit more 'laid back' in sound as if one is a bit further away in a concert hall from the performing band.
Some feel the HD650 is a bit too 'forward'/'upper-midrangy' (and the HD600 even more) for those the HD58X will be 'better'. Some feel the HD650 is 'smoother' and 'softer' in the treble despite it having more treble. Others like the 'cleaner'/'snappier' treble from the HD58X.
I don't find the stock HD58X to sound that great but some do. I like it better without the bass hump, yet others don't (or over did it by modding it wrongly). It is very accurate but not 'lush'. The HD650 is a bit more 'lush' but not as 'lush' as say the TH-X00 or the likes.
The (modified) HD58x is one of the most 'flat' measuring headphones. Just not as 'flat' as a similar modded (so slightly more damped) HD650 which measures better in that way but may sound too 'bright/forward' to some. In which case the HD58x may be the next best thing. That is untill you compare it to an EQ'ed HD800 which is much better (in many aspects) than both HD58X and HD6xx combined.... yet others will disagree and feel the HD650 with mods X or Y or Z is 'better'.
I think for instance the Focal clear is also great but would not buy them as the pads get ugly pretty quick and then you have to pay $ 250.- for pads and the quality/longevity and availability of parts seems to be questioned. Not so with Senn.
but... in the end the HD58x is one of the cheaper 'gems' out there but not the best in an absolute way.
|
|