Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jul 26, 2013 11:40:09 GMT
It sounds really pretty, Eric. I think you must be like me and like the sound of a valve and all those even harmonics going on.
Your description makes me think of the Aune T1 which is a bit of an oddity in that it is SS if you amplify via the phono sockets - you can just take the valve out in fact, but use it via usb and it goes via the tube. I also use the 6n23EB and it is glorious to listen to.
I think the T1 was going out at around £150. Not sure.
For me, with my computer set up, that's perfectly adequate. I get a bit jittery about any headphone over £250 and even more with DAC's above £200. I wonder if it's 'small' improvements and diminishing returns once you go past a certain point.
I have no idea how I got to those prices, but for me, once you get there, the makers need to take more care how much further they go and whether it's worth it for the majority of computers that we use at home.
I just feel uncomfortable paying much more than that so I guess it's a kind of target price.
Funnily enough, I'm roughly in the same area with amps - say, up to £300. After that, I think the returns are small. I can equally enjoy an expensive amp as well as a cheaper one (up to a point)
I'm waiting to hear about Javier's new box of tricks. He's quietly working on something, but it won't have any valves in the way; I'm certain of that!!!
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Javier
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Post by Javier on Jul 26, 2013 20:16:17 GMT
I'm waiting to hear about Javier's new box of tricks. He's quietly working on something, but it won't have any valves in the way; I'm certain of that!!! 100% correct, it won't have any glowing stuff but as almost everyone seems to have some in their amps they shouldn't be missed too much .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2013 19:20:50 GMT
would it likely compete with the kingrex ud384 ?
this product interests me as it can be used as a usb>spdif with my current dacor as stand alone dac.
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Javier
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Post by Javier on Jul 27, 2013 23:38:53 GMT
They are quite different concepts. Ours is a DIY offer, and uses 100% SMD parts so not for novices, whereas the Kingrex is a finished commercial product. We'll most probably offer a building service for those who can't build it themselves but limited to the board, it is about DIY so something has to be left to the user. Our project is based on the Amanero Combo384 USB to I2S/DSD adapter (has to be purchased separately) which doesn't have SPDIF output. The Amanero (www.amanero.com) is currently, IMVHO, the best USB adapter available. Much, much better than any XMOS or CM6631 based solution. It offers unmatched functionality, flexibility and performance at an amazing price (it can be purchased for 39€ through a DIYAudio group buy) but it is designed as I2S/DSD output only.I'll try to open a new thread next week when I'll be on holidays and have more free time. I'll try to include a brief description of the Combo384 too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2013 19:16:49 GMT
They are quite different concepts. Ours is a DIY offer, and uses 100% SMD parts so not for novices, whereas the Kingrex is a finished commercial product. We'll most probably offer a building service for those who can't build it themselves but limited to the board, it is about DIY so something has to be left to the user. Our project is based on the Amanero Combo384 USB to I2S/DSD adapter (has to be purchased separately) which doesn't have SPDIF output. The Amanero (www.amanero.com) is currently, IMVHO, the best USB adapter available. Much, much better than any XMOS or CM6631 based solution. It offers unmatched functionality, flexibility and performance at an amazing price (it can be purchased for 39€ through a DIYAudio group buy) but it is designed as I2S/DSD output only.I'll try to open a new thread next week when I'll be on holidays and have more free time. I'll try to include a brief description of the Combo384 too. "it is designed as I2S/DSD output only" i guess that counts me out then? i think
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Javier
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Post by Javier on Aug 2, 2013 20:00:26 GMT
If SPDIF is a must then I guess the answer is yes, unless you are interested in having two indendent DACs.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2013 22:03:32 GMT
i am lost !! i understand it will have usb input , but what output connectors will it have? surely rca!
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Aug 3, 2013 8:11:37 GMT
i am lost !! i understand it will have usb input , but what output connectors will it have? surely rca! Hi Simon, Javier meant 'the Amanero board' with the word 'it' in: it is designed as I2S/DSD output only The DAC Javier and a few of his friends are working on uses the Amanero board as a USB to I2S/DSD 'translator' only as DAC chips cannot understand 'USB'. DAC chips do understand I 2S and some do understand DSD signals. So the by the Amanero 'translated' USB signals (to I 2S) in the DAC-enclosure itself go to a DAC chip that can do both I 2S and DSD. That is followed by an analog filterstage/buffer and as it is DIY can have RCA output connectors for audio. So the DAC box will have USB input and RCA audio out (not balanced out via XLR) The Amanero is connected directly to the PC (and thus also to all the nasty common mode signals PC's emit) The output signals of the Amanero boards (in I 2S or DSD 'format') are subsequently galvanically separated so the analog (as well as the digital part such as signal routing/switching and clock oscillators that feed the DAC chip) of the DAC circuit is electrically 'disconnected' (isolated in an electrical sense) from the PC thereby 'removing' the possible (depending on circumstances) audible common mode currents that may be coming from a PC. These common mode currents in the audible domain can result in voltages which may become audible and either cause weird noises or 'degrade' the audio experience one has. For the highest common mode frequencies (> 100 MHz) there will still be some leakage but they are of no consequence. It's the common mode currents in the audible range that MAY occur in some complete sytems (CP + DAC + amp) that can possibly degrade the sonics. This is what Gordon Rankin had so say about the galvanic separation and it's (potential) importance of that feature: Today we totally isolate the USB and Processor so the noise generated by all that action above is kept away from the sensitive DAC chips and Audio Oscillators. This also breaks the ground path to the computer which is also a huge deal in keeping the sonics on par with what customers really need.
Thanks again, Gordon J. Gordon RankinSo like most other USB DAC's it will have USB socket in and RCA audio out but in addition it will have a (linear and multiple low noise regulated) power supply input which only powers the final digital + audio part. The enclosure will only be connected to the 'audio RCA side' and the USB side (including the Amanero board) will be 'floating'. In most other USB DAC offerings the USB side and audio are directly electrically connected which MAY result in degradation of sound in specific cases.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2013 18:56:14 GMT
i am lost !! i understand it will have usb input , but what output connectors will it have? surely rca! Hi Simon, Javier meant 'the Amanero board' with the word 'it' in: it is designed as I2S/DSD output only The DAC Javier and a few of his friends are working on uses the Amanero board as a USB to I2S/DSD 'translator' only as DAC chips cannot understand 'USB'. DAC chips do understand I 2S and some do understand DSD signals. So the by the Amanero 'translated' USB signals (to I 2S) in the DAC-enclosure itself go to a DAC chip that can do both I 2S and DSD. That is followed by an analog filterstage/buffer and as it is DIY can have RCA output connectors for audio. So the DAC box will have USB input and RCA audio out (not balanced out via XLR) The Amanero is connected directly to the PC (and thus also to all the nasty common mode signals PC's emit) The output signals of the Amanero boards (in I 2S or DSD 'format') are subsequently galvanically separated so the analog (as well as the digital part such as signal routing/switching and clock oscillators that feed the DAC chip) of the DAC circuit is electrically 'disconnected' (isolated in an electrical sense) from the PC thereby 'removing' the possible (depending on circumstances) audible common mode currents that may be coming from a PC. These common mode currents in the audible domain can result in voltages which may become audible and either cause weird noises or 'degrade' the audio experience one has. For the highest common mode frequencies (> 100 MHz) there will still be some leakage but they are of no consequence. It's the common mode currents in the audible range that MAY occur in some complete sytems (CP + DAC + amp) that can possibly degrade the sonics. This is what Gordon Rankin had so say about the galvanic separation and it's (potential) importance of that feature: Today we totally isolate the USB and Processor so the noise generated by all that action above is kept away from the sensitive DAC chips and Audio Oscillators. This also breaks the ground path to the computer which is also a huge deal in keeping the sonics on par with what customers really need.
Thanks again, Gordon J. Gordon RankinSo like most other USB DAC's it will have USB socket in and RCA audio out but in addition it will have a (linear and multiple low noise regulated) power supply input which only powers the final digital + audio part. The enclosure will only be connected to the 'audio RCA side' and the USB side (including the Amanero board) will be 'floating'. In most other USB DAC offerings the USB side and audio are directly electrically connected which MAY result in degradation of sound in specific cases. Hi Frans sorry for my lack of knowledge. so in a nutshell, it will play my pc based music ?
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Aug 3, 2013 19:01:08 GMT
In a nutshell .... yes. But so can a gazillion other devices It is the functionality, accuracy, versatility, flexibility, usability e.t.c. that sets them all apart.
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Javier
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Post by Javier on Aug 3, 2013 22:48:36 GMT
Simon, when I first answered I thought you were asking about an specific funcionality (IE SPDIF output) not if it was a full product. Indeed our project will play all your PC based audio just as your current sound card or external DAC.
There are basically two ways to get digital out of a computer, one would be through SPDIF (electrical coaxial) or Toslink (optical plastic fibre) from either an onboard CODEC found on most motherboards or a PCI or PCIe souncard the other would be an external USB adapter. We will be using the 2nd method as it enables a bigger choice of output formats. 99.99% of SPDIF and Toslink are limited to 24/192 PCM whereas with USB it is possible to output any PCM you can think of (there are USB adapters capable of outputting up to 32/768 or even 32/1,536 PCM) and also up to DSD512 in case of DSD.
We picked the USB solution from Amanero as a "translator" between the PC (or Mac) and our DAC which only has analogue outputs to connect to an external amp. The Combo384 is, without a doubt, the most flexible and powerful USB adapter available ATM and also has a great price.
The advantage of this approach, separate USB adapter plus DAC board, is upgradeability. If in the future one wants to upgrade the DAC the USB adapter can be re used to feed a different DAC.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2013 20:13:36 GMT
Simon, when I first answered I thought you were asking about an specific funcionality (IE SPDIF output) not if it was a full product. Indeed our project will play all your PC based audio just as your current sound card or external DAC. There are basically two ways to get digital out of a computer, one would be through SPDIF (electrical coaxial) or Toslink (optical plastic fibre) from either an onboard CODEC found on most motherboards or a PCI or PCIe souncard the other would be an external USB adapter. We will be using the 2nd method as it enables a bigger choice of output formats. 99.99% of SPDIF and Toslink are limited to 24/192 PCM whereas with USB it is possible to output any PCM you can think of (there are USB adapters capable of outputting up to 32/768 or even 32/1,536 PCM) and also up to DSD512 in case of DSD. We picked the USB solution from Amanero as a "translator" between the PC (or Mac) and our DAC which only has analogue outputs to connect to an external amp. The Combo384 is, without a doubt, the most flexible and powerful USB adapter available ATM and also has a great price. The advantage of this approach, separate USB adapter plus DAC board, is upgradeability. If in the future one wants to upgrade the DAC the USB adapter can be re used to feed a different DAC. Javier the kingrex was just something i stumbled across while searching for usb/spdif and dac options. i thought it offered a feature that may be useful, ie the usb/spdif for use with separate dac. i have had issues with my current hiface2 adapter, hence my reason for considering alternatives. sounds like your product would replace my adapter and dac, whereas the kingrex could be used with my current dac. just trying to get my head around all the options. cheers Simon
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2013 10:10:03 GMT
has anyone on here had any experience with chord dacs? eg "qutehd" i understand the technology is different to most dacs. but are the fancy enclosures where the money goes?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2013 19:16:02 GMT
has anyone on here had any experience with chord dacs? eg "qutehd" i understand the technology is different to most dacs. but are the fancy enclosures where the money goes? thats a "NO" then? anyway, i have another question. i read over on head-fi that someone reckoned a good "rule of thumb" is to budget only 5% of system budget on a separate dac! i dont agree with this. what do you guys reckon?
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Nov 6, 2013 20:02:48 GMT
To me it makes sense..... However, if you budgeted for an KSC75 + C'Moy it will be hard to find a decent DAC for that remaining 5% ...
I think you should spend what you think it is worth to YOU instead of using rules of thumb.
See if you can audition a DAC at home (or buy one with a return policy) that you are interested in and compare it (BLIND if possible) to the one you have. When done blind you may find you can spend the money for the DAC on other things in life.... Nahh... it will always be 'nagging' and will wonder if there is something even better. Other peoples opinions/findings/reviews will always say so.
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