solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Dec 18, 2013 22:00:32 GMT
The one you have is already a pretty good one.
It could be tweaked with input capacitances (if the cartridge requires this). As the one you already have has an all passive RIAA correction it may be noisier than active ones or 'hybrid' ones (part active/part passive correction)
If noise isn't a problem then You may not have to bother unless you are looking into low output MC cartridges for instance.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Dec 18, 2013 22:17:50 GMT
The one you have is already a pretty good one. Eh??? The one I had is now dead. It was relatively cheap one off ebay recommended by a 'golden eared' member on AoS - Sean gave it a bit more gain for me after you had a look at the circuit and offered advice but sadly it died shortly afterwards. In the absence of contrary advice I am looking at a Cambridge 551P form Richer Sounds tomorrow. Cheers, Dave.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Dec 19, 2013 6:07:31 GMT
The one you have is already a pretty good one. Eh??? The one I had is now dead. It was relatively cheap one off ebay recommended by a 'golden eared' member on AoS - Sean gave it a bit more gain for me after you had a look at the circuit and offered advice but sadly it died shortly afterwards. In the absence of contrary advice I am looking at a Cambridge 551P form Richer Sounds tomorrow. Cheers, Dave. There can't be that much wrong with it.. I guess the power circuits gave up... The Cambridge seems to be well made.
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Javier
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Post by Javier on Dec 19, 2013 8:55:35 GMT
I have not heard of DSD music but I looked it up, it seems pretty cool. Sure I could play DSD in the future if there are enough good albums using that technology. Even if you get the ODAC, the Modi or any other PCM only DAC, should ever want to, you could buy a DSD only Schiit Loki (149$) later on to cover that specific area. I'm not opposed to up-sampling if the techies say it does not harm the music. up/over sampling is going to happen always for 16/44.1 material unless you have one of those rare NOS DACs (which have quite a few problems of their own). From a technical point of view, up/over sampling can be done much better in the computer using way more powerful and sophisticated algorithms than the ones present in most DACs or upsampling chips like TI's SRC4xxx series. Most oerating systems do this by default, for example Windows using DirectSound output, but it can be bettered using ASIO or WASAPI outputs and the player's up/over sampling function (JRiver's integrated is very good, SOX plugin for Foobar, etc.). I believe the same happens in Mac and Linux (unless you output straight into ALSA with SRC disabled) but there are players that have good algorithms for the OSs too. I'm looking for a DAC that will convert the music as best as possible so that the only coloration will come from the amp or headphones. Even the worst DACs will have much better performance than your HPs or speakers and quite possibly will outperform the amp too. Personally I like high performance DACs but it is for the sake of good numbers and functionality rather than "hearable" improved SQ. The truth is that above a certain SQ level (which isn't that hard to achieve) the perceivable differences between DACs with matched outputy level can be very, very subtle at best.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Dec 19, 2013 10:24:09 GMT
I'd like to add to Javiers point about DAC chips.
The fun part is that unless real ladder chips are used (only a few DAC manufacturers use those) you NEVER have a 'bit perfect' reproduction (nor should you have to care). Also the ones that use ladders and oversample 4 to 8 times by default are not truly 'bit perfect'. Oversampling is done/needed so analog post filtering can be constructed simply and uniform. It all hangs on the algorithm used which is firmware or hardware based. The firmware based ones may be 'upgrade-able'. All the modern chips used all convert their incoming 16, 20, 24 or 32 bit data to a bit stream and thus all of them have a DSD-alike output signal.
The 3 mentioned DAC's are not ladder types.
The theoretical best DAC would be a non-oversampling DAC which is used with upsampled files to AT LEAST 176.4kHz / 192kHz. An analog reconstruction/low pass filter can be constructed that removes residual HF noise above 50kHz. The oversampling can be done in the PC by programs like XXHE or other programs.
Personally I am perfectly fine with using cheap 'bitstream' DACs and is good enough for my crappy hearing, equipment and music files.
Using NOS DACs WITHOUT software upsampling is not the wisest move although some are perfectly happy with it and aren't plagued by the huge levels of distortion and HF energy that would otherwise be the case.
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Javier
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Post by Javier on Dec 19, 2013 14:02:29 GMT
Adding some more to what Frans says,
There are also the old (and long time discontinued but revered by many) Philips TDA154x chips which were multibit PCM but supposedly not strictly ladder type but rather "curent segment".
The only current production ladder or R2R (resistor to resistor) chips available that I'm aware of are TI's PCM1704 and they cost 50$/ea per 1,000. The street price for small orders is, of course, quite a bit higher and at least 2 are necessary as they are single channel. There are some industrial and automotive R2R chips available also but they are low end parts but the R2R chip is basically extinct. They can still be found in places like Ebay but there are lots of fakes too, specially for the most desired ones like the TDA1541A S2 Double Crown.
99.99% of all vailable commercial DACs or set top boxes (BD, DVD, Media Servers, Network Players, Mobile devices, etc.) use multibit DSM (or SDM if you will) chips.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2013 19:34:46 GMT
It sort of depends on what you are looking for in a DAC. This depends on a number of things: What is the source ? PC/laptop/tablet/streamer/other source What is your preferred connection ? USB/SPDIF using RCA/BNC or TOSLink (fibre-optic) or a combination ? USB powered or mains powered ? Which type of files do you want to play native. In other words if you have a few 192/24 files and the rest is MP3 or CD quality do you want the DAC to play those files in the original format as well or like to have the PC re-sample for you ? Do you like to play DSD in the foreseeable future ? Are you looking for a DIY project and does this mean soldering the lot or just slapping a PCB into a nice case ? Do you mind installing drivers ? Do you only use Windhose or other OS's too ? Personally I was eye-balling this: jlsounds.com/sells them on fleabay too: It seems well received in the DIY community and works directly under Linux but needs (supplied) XMOS drivers under Windhose. It is isolated and upgradeable and can work from USB only or fed from an external power supply and plays all formats (depending on DAC board) is small and looks well thought out/built and seems to perform well (jitter almost as good as the Buffalo). Haven't pulled the trigger myself though but the price and features are right. you gone and got me started again now this usb-12s device can be bought with a dsd capable dac board..... jlsounds.com/i2soverusb-with-ak4396.htmli assume the dac board could also be used with the "luckit waveio" ? would this option be better or worse and would it still be dsd capable?
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Dec 19, 2013 20:31:53 GMT
My guess would be the WaveIO and JLsounds board are more similar than different. The JLsounds boards are purpose made for his I2S board but the boards can be used with other I2S devices.
I don't know if the WaveIO can also do DSD as it isn't mentioned anywhere. It all may depend on how the chip is implemented most likely.
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Javier
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Post by Javier on Dec 19, 2013 23:21:12 GMT
It actually depends on the firmware loaded on the XMOS chip. DSD wasn't originally included, it was a hack that was made public and free for non comercial aplications so not all XMOS boards incorporate it and sadly WaveIO is I2S only ATM.
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Javier
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Post by Javier on Dec 20, 2013 11:05:17 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2013 18:41:39 GMT
that new asus is much better looking than the previous unit imo
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2013 19:59:33 GMT
anyone got any views on Beresford dacs ? they seem well received over on "AoS"
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Javier
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Post by Javier on Dec 21, 2013 21:22:09 GMT
They are quite affordable. Dave has one and AFAIK he is very pleased with it though if it was my hard earned me I'd get something higher tech or at least more up to date.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Dec 21, 2013 21:40:17 GMT
They are quite affordable. Dave has one and AFAIK he is very pleased with it though if it was my hard earned me I'd get something higher tech or at least more up to date. Yep but mine is an old 7520 of a few years vintage. Two other members on here, Gazjam and Covenant, joined with me in upgrading it a few times and I believe we got it up to and beyond the Caiman standard (next and improved iteration of the Beresford DAC). The latest version, the Bushmaster, has received rave reviews on AoS and I don't think I've read any bad reports or reviews anywhere. I can say from personal experience that Stan Beresford is a great guy to deal with - could not be more helpful and approachable to his customers and you always deal with Stan himself so you get the top response. FWIW Bushmaster and Caiman are types of alligator I believe that are native to the island(?) in the West Indies where Stan was born. If you have any questions, just ask Stan, you'll get a zero BS response I guarantee . Hope this helps, Dave.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2013 18:36:14 GMT
i have spent the last hour listening to a dire straits hybrid sacd, playing from my onkyo sacd player, in comparison with the same album (flac) playing through foobar. both systems feed into my HP filter/switch box. playing the album simultaneously on both systems means all i have to switch is the input toggle switch on my filter box. i assume the sacd player is playing dsd. i cannot detect a noticeable difference in SQ.
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