Dave
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Post by Dave on Oct 27, 2013 21:04:30 GMT
you happen to earn a good living from it. I am slowly coming round to the view (perception) that my current set up is about as good as my tired old ears are capable of appreciating. I'm not saying that the set up is now fixed, probably far from it, a change is sometimes a good thing in it's own right, but I don't anticipate much more climbing up the upgrade ladder. Those of you 'blessed' with ears that perceive minor subtleties and nuances in music that bypass the perception of most other mortals are presumably much more prone to invest in more expensive but more revealing kit. That must be a bit of a problem when your income places you in a market that is not widely served (price wise) by such revealing kit. That is my idea of being cursed. But earning a good living from such a capability must be nice . Discuss. Dave.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2013 23:41:59 GMT
Hi Dave, Far from having "Golden Ears", I think that an awful lot people who read Hi-Fi magazines and Hi-Fi forum reviews of kit feel that after reading how "amazing", "fantastic", and "insert your own over-the-top-adjective-here", a particular bit of kit is, they then look at their own and think : mine isn't new, it isn't in this magazine review, it must be rubbish, therefore it's upgrade time! What I call "What Hi-Fi-itis". An absolutely dreadful magazine - their mission statement, "If it's not the absolute bleeding-edge- latest piece of kit, then it's absolutely shit! Upgrade now!!" They then compound this false thinking by buying blind, probably the same kit they saw in the magazine/forum. They then plug it in and find that when interacting with their room, their amp, their speakers, etc, the 5-star-rated kit they've bought sounds no better than the kit they had. How to explain it? Why, they must have "Golden Ears", because they can hear obvious faults with kit which is generally acknowledged to be excellent! See how good their hearing is? Do not get me started on cable companies!! Never, in the field of audio reproduction, has so much Snake-oil, been sold by so many greedy, unscrupulous cable manufacturers, to so many gullible people. The law of diminishing returns comes in quick and hits hard with cables I think. A good-quality cable which is well made mechanically and has the required electrical properties and measurements is all that's required. All else is 'male jewellery'. £2000-pound interconnects? Come on, who's fooling who? In my very modest system, I use DNM I/C's and speaker cable. After research, they were shortlisted as candidates to pep up my all valve system. I also auditioned Chord, Van Den Hul and Atlas but felt the DNM's gave me more of what I wanted. This doesn't mean the others were bad, just that the DNM's suited my room, and my kit, and my requirements, better than the others. So that's my explanation for the majority of "Golden Ears".
As ever (and what most of them don't seem to understand when it comes to hi-fi kit), Your Mileage May Vary!
P.S. As a general rule, I would urge people to stop critically listening to their Hi-Fi's and start listening emotionally to their MUSIC!!!
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Oct 28, 2013 12:09:06 GMT
Hi Jeff, I think you are coming at this from a slightly different angle to me. I have no time for the 'coat tail chasers' who read magazine articles about the latest 'must have' piece of hi-fi gear and immediately take the view that it 'sounds' (sorry ) to be much better than mine so that's going to be my next purchase - I'm sure that they are mainly disappointed once the newness has worn off. My concern is for those who genuinely hear the detail that mere normal souls are oblivious to, When I read reviews (on fora) by these guys it amazes me the detail that they are able to go into when describing the SQ of any particular piece of hi-fi gear, details that I just do not hear - are you reading this Ian and Frans? ). I have not read any hi-fi magazine or their reviews for several years as I rapidly realised, for several reasons, they do not live in the same audio world that I live in and are therefore of no interest to me. Dave. PS hope you and yours survived the 'stormageddon' and particularly Ian who was away from home but both his home and his then location were directly under the worst affected area.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 28, 2013 12:16:56 GMT
The storm has moved on and is now over the Netherlands.
I suspect many who claim to hear these ´details´ will be having a hard time substantiating it under different conditions. Most details and ´spatial´ clues are ´invented´ by the brain and not everyone does this is a similar fashion.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2013 12:52:30 GMT
When I read reviews (on fora) by these guys it amazes me the detail that they are able to go into when describing the SQ of any particular piece of hi-fi gear, details that I just do not hear Oh, right Dave, get you now. Yes, I notice people talking about "a slight bloom in the upper mids", or "lacking a lower-mid bass", and I think WTF? I hear and differentiate bass, mids and treble when I really listen critically. But to start sub-dividing them, and then go on to describe them individually is beyond me!
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 28, 2013 17:27:09 GMT
I don't believe anyone has golden ears. We all have ears that work perfectly well and its the brain that does the work.
Depending on your experience of listening, you will be more open to minor differences.
Tbh, I take sweeping generalisations that some write as a complete joke. It shows more about them than they even know themselves!!
Worse are the idiots with big egos who write tosh which leads others into buying things they may not really need.
Storm hit big time. We've had no power all day, so I've driven 15 miles to a Tesco for a warm up and a meal!!
Sent from my HTC Wildfire S A510e using proboards
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Oct 28, 2013 19:04:29 GMT
The storm has moved on and is now over the Netherlands. I suspect many who claim to hear these ´details´ will be having a hard time substantiating it under different conditions. Most details and ´spatial´ clues are ´invented´ by the brain and not everyone does this is a similar fashion. Hi Frans, Hope you and yours survived without major incident, and your sea walls did what they were designed to do - a problem The Netherlands have that we don't (in general) . Hi Ian, Sad to hear about your difficulties but it could have been much worse I guess. Hope things get back to normal for you (and the deer and owls ) soon. Regarding what we hear versus what some claim to hear, I have no doubt that Ian hears what he says he hears, hence my exclusion of those who earn a good living from such abilities. For such people this ability is surely a blessing. I on the other hand know that I do not have such abilities. Having said that, my original post was prompted to some extent by my very recent experience with my phono pre-amp. This was fitted with sockets to enable the set of 4 resistors to be changed very easily and quickly. I had no idea of what to expect other than the lower value the resistors that were put in the louder the volume (gain) should become. This certainly happened but what surprised me was that the bass was also very audibly affected, even to my cloth ears, it getting tauter and less muddy/foggy as it did so. To my mind this is not a figment of my imagination, it was far to obvious for that. So, at what point does the obvious (unsubtle) change give way to imagined ones for me and would A N Other (mere mortal) reach the same conclusion at the same point (degree of change). In short, where does real differences in audio perception give way to imaginary ones if at all and is this the same for all people? To suggest an answer to my own question, everyone should agree on the point at which real change gives way to imagined ones, otherwise differences to one person are genuinely real to others, so how and where do we draw the line between each? I realise that this question has been poised in a somewhat convoluted manner so if it's too convoluted just forget it 'cos I don't expect to get a definitive answer as I reckon it's impossible to provide one. Just letting my mind wander while I've still got one . Dave..
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 28, 2013 22:17:31 GMT
The line is very thin and variable for several reasons and ONLY through tightly controled blind experiments 'imagination' (if you can really call it that, it sounds so negative and stigmatising) and 'reality' can be separated.
The word 'placebo' and 'imagination' has hurt the soul of many audiophiles just as words as 'cloth eared' and 'being closed minded' has hurt those that like to perform controled experiments.
In the end, what's only important is what YOU can hear and if you are able to enjoy what you hear regardless how green the grass of others may look.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 29, 2013 11:06:33 GMT
Also Dave, if you don't hear changes, they probably ain't there.
Many audio guys treat it like a test and put themselves under pressure to hear things. Especially if they've spent a lot of money. For some, it's an ego trip. It gets them recognition.
For me, its for myself. Not that influenced by what many others say unless I know them to be honest.
If you heat differences with bits changed or different cables, then you hear differences and that's it.
I tend to go more along the lines of .... It helps the brain translate. After al, it's not live or real music so it's a brain trick really.
Maybe that's why I'm not that good with soundstage on headphones. To me its non existent virtually because I know its coming out of two tiny speakers close to my ears and my brain never gets past that.
As long as I hear a good timbre and the music communicates, that's fine for me.
Having a good ear is experience and training, but I can easily listen to inaccurate gear and accept that too. People saying they can't listen on a certain headphone because its so bad make me laugh. It's only sound and how your brain translates.
To me, that says that they are unable to translate the sound they hear into real music. More to do with them than the gear imo.
However, good gear makes the translation a lot easier!!
Sent from my HTC Wildfire S A510e using proboards
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