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Post by jaffar on Mar 12, 2014 8:55:04 GMT
Hi Frans et al,
The user manual says E182CC tubes are supported, but their pinout is different from the 12AX7-type.
Does the amp adjust automatically for the E182CC pinout?
E182CC is similar to 5687/7044/7119 tubes. Can they be used with the Project Horizon III?
Thanks!
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Mar 12, 2014 10:14:57 GMT
Hi Jaffar,
Welcome to the forum !
The E182CC cannot be used.
It being on the list may have been caused by a typo made at some point, as I did specify the E812CC (= ECC82) in the schematics I supplied to Jeremy.
The E182CC cannot be used as pin 6, 8 and 9 are connected differently.
The Ember can only auto select heaters (6VG and 12V) and autobias tubes in a fairly wide range.
All the other amps have to set the 6V and 12V manually (as is the bias).
I have notified Jeremy about this error in the manual... thanks for reporting !
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Post by jaffar on Mar 13, 2014 5:29:59 GMT
Frans,
thanks for the quick reply!
I'm going to buy fully-built Project Horizon III for my Sennheiser HD800 phones.
Some more questions:
1. When the linear PSU and the supercharger upgrades will be available?
2. My source has 2Vrms output and I'm afraid it may be too hot for the 270 mV sensitivity.
Should I use some particular tubes with lower gain?
3. Will the E182CC family of tubes work in the Horizon when used with a re-wired adapter, bias-adjusted?
This would open the possibility for some great 5687/7044/7119/6900 tube rolling...
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Mar 13, 2014 6:03:38 GMT
1: The Supercharger is already available.
The power supply ... errrrmm I don't know you would have to ask Jeremy.
I only supply the schematics to Jeremy.
2: No problem.. Jeremy hasn't updated his specs yet (told him to do so) but as the Horizon III has a gain module the sensitivity can be set to any value you want.
Also there is no chance of over-steering the input as the volume control comes before the amp circuit.
With the gain module (2 resistors on a DIP-8 socket)
3: If you make an adapter and correctly wire the 'wrongly' wired tube half is SHOULD work.
The E182CC is a high quality and carefully matched low microphonic longplate version of the ECC82
amp - tube
1 - 1
2 - 2
3 - 3
4 - 4
5 - 5
6 - 9
7 - 7
8 - 6
9 - 8
The HD800 will love the Horizon as it provides more than enough output voltage (headroom) and the output resistance can be altered.
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Post by chinook9 on Mar 14, 2014 15:42:01 GMT
Hello Frans
The use of adapters to allow the use of a wider range of tubes in the Horizon/Sunrise is intriguing.
I did some reading and found that many audio heads make their own adapters but there appear to be many for sale on ebay.
I like to make such things, but it might make sense to buy them ready made if the ones advertised will work.
Can you give me a quick yes/no if the following would work to adapt the e182cc tubes to the SRII?
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Mar 14, 2014 15:51:28 GMT
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Post by chinook9 on Mar 14, 2014 16:19:55 GMT
It looks as though this would be quite easy, rewiring pins 6,8, and 9, then hold the new pins in the bottom with super glue. Does that sound right?
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Mar 14, 2014 16:47:01 GMT
I think it should be do-able.
These socket savers don't cost that much.
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Post by chinook9 on Mar 14, 2014 17:05:51 GMT
Great! Thank you Frans. Now, I just have to determine if there are any E182CC tubes that might make it worth the effort.
ALSO: for anyone else interested in the E182CC tubes, I found this "Note that this type of tube may not match well between tubes, and/or tube sections. This is because this tube was designed for "on-off" digital operation, not linear operation to amplify analog signals. It will still work as a linear amplifier, it's just that this was not its intended mode of operation so it may not have consistent linear-mode characteristics."
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Mar 14, 2014 18:00:19 GMT
THESE guys say the following regarding the E182CC. The E182CC was an extra special quality version of the E82CC which was itself a special quality version of the popular ECC82. The E182CC was designed with both an anti-microphonic construction and with two matched triodes within the envelope. These features made them especially suited for differential amplifiers in such instrumentation as pen recorders and bridge circuits. The Honeywell pen recorders used the E182CC for optimum performance. Designed as AF voltage amplifiers, two independent matched valves exist in the envelope. An amplification factor of 24 is quoted. The operating conditions, performance and pin connections differ from the ECC82. One of them is wrong ... or both. 
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Post by chinook9 on Mar 14, 2014 20:46:41 GMT
Very interesting quotes. Makes them appear to be extra special tubes, however, I could find little concerning their use in audio applications which is not what I would expect if they are exceptional audio tubes. On the other hand they are not especially inexpensive tubes.
I have ordered a couple of socket savers from one of links Frans provided and I may buy one of the less expensive 7119 tubes which I assume are the same construction as the E182CC.
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Post by jaffar on Mar 20, 2014 4:29:26 GMT
I have ordered a couple of socket savers from one of links Frans provided and I may buy one of the less expensive 7119 tubes which I assume are the same construction as the E182CC. Let us know your findings with the 7119. |
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Mar 20, 2014 6:05:21 GMT
Strangely enough the E182CC and 7119 are always mentioned together.
Possibly they simply are the same tubes but as mentioned before the 7119 seems to be intended for 'digital' circuitry (where microphony and matching tube halves is not important) where the E182CC is intended for high quality differential amps that have to be low in microphonics.
It would not surprise me though that they are actually the same tubes but Philips did some cherry picking and labelled the excellent matching ones E182CC and the lesser ones 7119. Just a theory though and may be completely wrong here.
I have a number of Philips tubes here (pulled from a Tektronix scope) that have ECC88/6DJ8 markings on them yet many think the ECC88 and 6DJ8 are similar but not exactly the same tubes.
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Post by chinook9 on Mar 20, 2014 23:01:59 GMT
Thanks you for the information on the differences between the E182CC and the 7119.
I have the socket savers (to build the adapter) but I don't know if I'm going to buy a tube or not. I would prefer an E182CC but the ones I've seen on eBay cost more than I'm willing to pay for what I expect will not be any better than most of the tubes I already have. I can get an Amperex 7119 a lot cheaper and also a GE 5 Star 5687, but they don't excite me, knowing that if there are any differences, the E182CC should be the better for audio.
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