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Post by Cranky on Feb 11, 2018 19:44:33 GMT
I just thought I'd update my experience after 2 and a half years of using the DT880.
I recently stopped using them for a few months, and now (after the two-year warranty has ended) they sound boomy and a little distant, with poor high-mid definition. Now, when I get my mixes sounding right through the DT880, they are painfully harsh and bass-light through the monitors.
Very disappointed with a bad investment.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Feb 11, 2018 20:17:03 GMT
Are you using the exact same amplifier when using the DT880 ? I have never experienced drastic tonal changes in headphones except when the pads are worn and compress too much. Both drivers failing in an exact similar way is also something I have not seen yet. I guess such a thing could make someone cranky What made you stop using the DT880 for a certain period and what did you use instead ?
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Post by Cranky on Feb 13, 2018 16:15:59 GMT
Sorry for the delay in responding, I realised I didn't have 'Notifications' enabled.
I went through a phase of doing little in the way of music production, allowing myself to be distracted by other matters. However, all the equipment is the same as before. It got to the point where the DT880s were vastly inferior to the other headphones I own, the Sennheiser HD201 (excellent value for such a low price) and Samson RH600.
Since my last post, the strangeness of both drivers going similarly faulty had also occurred to me. So I tried another burn-in last night, submitting the Beyerdynamics to a loud pink noise bombardment for about fourteen hours, and there does appear to be some correction. Could it be that the diaphragms have stiffened after a long period of idleness? Anyway, I'll be subjecting them to another round of burn-in time tonight to see if there's even more improvement.
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Post by Cranky on Mar 2, 2018 2:36:23 GMT
After many hours of overnight burn-ins with pink noise, violet noise, and plenty of music, I was on the point of selling the DT880s. However, after a fifteen hour session of white noise last night they appear to have suddenly repaired themselves. I'm wondering if it's normal for headphones to require repeat burn-ins after long periods of idleness.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Mar 2, 2018 5:47:02 GMT
I have never experienced this myself.
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Post by lobalwarming on Mar 8, 2018 0:58:06 GMT
I have never experienced this myself. That's because you don't allow yourself long periods of idleness. Maybe hang out with some slacker musicians for a few months to learn the secrets of doing nothing productive.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 8, 2018 9:59:43 GMT
After many hours of overnight burn-ins with pink noise, violet noise, and plenty of music, I was on the point of selling the DT880s. However, after a fifteen hour session of white noise last night they appear to have suddenly repaired themselves. I'm wondering if it's normal for headphones to require repeat burn-ins after long periods of idleness. I’m not certain about ‘burn in’ with any headphone if I’m being honest. My feelings are that it’s more a question of ‘brain adjust’ which is probably what you experienced. The ‘sudden’ fixing of a headphone sound through burn in is very questionable and may be down to you being in a different frame of mind and expectations after the burn in. After all, if it changed after 15 hours, then why does it not continue to change to the point of self destruct? What stops it changing? Also, why do headphones always change for the better? Are people suggesting that manufacturers actually design this ‘burn in’ as part of their headphone sound because I’d love to know how they do it and how the headphone knows when to stop burning in. Why don’t manufacturers burn them in for you? Then they can assure quality for their customers. To me, it’s a myth. So far, I’ve only seen ‘Verbal’ talk of it with no real proof that anything at all happens to the drivers. I guess the wonders of the internet make these things spread like wildfire, but the excursions of a headphone driver are quite small in comparison to a speaker and no one has yet really measured anything changing after 500 hours with a headphone. Of course, people that believe this will argue forever and accuse ‘non hearers’ as ‘deaf’ so it’s a kind of oddity that I read on the internet in all kinds of places where it is also widely accepted as the truth.
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Post by Cranky on Mar 22, 2018 1:36:33 GMT
The argument will just have to remain unresolved, Ian. Until you actually witnesses a change after burn-in, it's understandable that you'll remain unconvinced. However, the change that occurred with my DT880 was blatantly obvious to me, but you'll just have to take my word for it - or not. Unfortunately, I have no equipment to measure the change, but if burn-ins were performed by the manufacturer before sale, that would obviously make it less competitive by causing an increase in the price.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 22, 2018 8:17:52 GMT
I did hear it once with a Superlux headphone which had no bass. 30 minutes later the bass suddenly appeared. However, that might have been something as simple as a crinkled driver perhaps?
It should be something that is extremely easy to prove since if the sound is changing to the point that we are aware of changes, it must show up on FR measurements or distortion measurements.
It also makes me feel a bit dodgy about buying a new headphone if it does exist, because I’d like to know how the manufacturers determine how much change will happen and when it stops and why it stops.
I’ve grown to love the sound of my MSR7, but I don’t think they changed really. It was my head tuning in possibly. Not sure.
Maybe one day, someone will demonstrate with measured proof?
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Post by Cranky on Mar 22, 2018 13:52:48 GMT
I'm surprised that no one appears to have even made a measurement comparison between before and after burn-in frequency and distortion responses. Furthermore, if it is real, the manufacturers' specifications at time of sale may be compromised. After all, it could reach a stage where quality goes beyond the point of optimum and into the area of degradation.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Mar 22, 2018 14:46:11 GMT
Actually I did do such a measurement with a Superlux (HD662EVO HD681-EVO) and also Tyll has made an attempt. Also did it with the Fostex T50RP-mk3 as it had a strange reacting driver. VERY VERY small (inaudible to me) small changes are found. Changes that could very well attributed to measurement errors.
Have measured and heard many headphones and only heard a change in one of many HD681's I modified that had little bass which 'came in' during one song (so a few minutes) and one of them took about an hour. At that point I did not have a test rig so is only anecdotal.
I have a DT990 which I did not use for several years and still sounded the same as when I last used it and remembered it.
As far as I can tell burn in does not exist. Pad deformation and brain-in are very real.
When I have a cold or when I use a headphone during the day it can sound very different from the moment I use it in the evening or when well rested. VERY different, yet I know they measure the same.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 22, 2018 18:33:36 GMT
I'm surprised that no one appears to have even made a measurement comparison between before and after burn-in frequency and distortion responses. Furthermore, if it is real, the manufacturers' specifications at time of sale may be compromised. After all, it could reach a stage where quality goes beyond the point of optimum and into the area of degradation. Yes, that surprises me. There are some really vocal/loud people who go on about everything being burned in, but there never has been any real evidence to prove it. I saw an article once where a guy took measurements before and after burn in but they didn’t change. Also, there are two slightly suspicious things about burn in.... a) as you rightly said, when does the headphone stop and continue on into deterioration? b) why do they always seem to burn in and improve? I’ve had a hard used headphone here for twenty odd years and driven hard in studios. I couldn’t tell the difference between it and a new one I bought for a student. Mine did have new pads because I ordered them along with the headphones. I just thought that my Superlux which altered within 30 minutes must have had some kind of flaw which playing seemed to iron out. It was quite dramatic though because it originally sounded like a telephone with no bass and half an hour or so later, it seemed to suddenly develop bass.
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Post by Cranky on Mar 22, 2018 20:06:59 GMT
The burn-in didn't work for the Samson SR850 that I returned to Amazon either. I've just ordered the Superlux HD681, so I'll see how that reacts (or not) to it too. I've also ordered some stretchable and washable fabric earpad covers to see if that improves the comfort of the pleather earpads. I intended to get some anyway in order to reduce the likelihood of ear infection.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Mar 22, 2018 20:07:11 GMT
fresh out of the box and after 5hrs of blasting very loud bassy music as burn in. HD681-EVO More info... on that page also linkies to other burn-in research
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Post by Cranky on Mar 22, 2018 20:42:24 GMT
Well that told us!
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