Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 15, 2014 13:35:15 GMT
I'll have a chance to compare the new 612 with the old 601 soon.
I'm very keen on the K601 and love its open sound and the top end (for me) isn't quite as 'ringy' as the K701. The K601 is one of my favourite headphones both in terms of comfort and sound. As far as sound goes, it's the only headphone that I have that comes close to headphones measured and modded by Frans with no modding at all.
The most common thing said about the K601 is lack of bass. In fact, it is thin when stuck on an Ipod or something a bit naff, but on an amplifier, the bass doesn't actually increase, but it develops a better 'impact' so you are more aware of it.
According to rumours, the K612 has a bit more bass which might warm up the sound of the K601 a bit. I noticed that the K712 has a raised bass. I managed to hear a K712 yesterday and it is a bit 'fruitier' than the K701. The top is still very open and similar I think to the K701/702, but the slightly stronger bass kind of compensates for it so it sounds a bit smoother. I like the sound of the K712 but not the price.
So it seems that AKG are attempting to warm the K range up with a slightly raised bass level.
I can't find a FR graph anywhere for the K612 which is strange. The raised bass may have more to do with a slightly different cup material or shape since from what I've seen, the driver is the same as the K601. I think they retail around £125 although I see DV247 do it for £115 with free delivery to the UK. For the quality of the sound that you get from them, this is a very good price. It's a pretty flat headphone and extremely wide and open sounding. It's one headphone that I've always felt at home with with regards to sound.
There are remarkably few comparisons between the K601 and K612 as well. Great shame since the K601 was a bargain for the sound and it looks as though the K612 may well get overshadowed by the others further up the chain again once more. However, that makes it a good deal for people who want a good sound for quite a bit less than the others. They are close in sound.
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Javier
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Post by Javier on Apr 16, 2014 7:20:39 GMT
I'm very interested in your review of the 612 though for some reason I suspect sonic differences will be minimal if any at all. Hope you prove me wrong.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 16, 2014 9:10:31 GMT
Do you use the K601 then, Javier? For me, it's the one headphone that I have always felt sounds 'right' to me since I got it. No ramped up bass, not as sibilant as K701 at the top. Perhaps not quite as 'revealing' as the K701/702, but I didn't like the top end of the 701 at all in the end. I tried really hard to 'like' it as well. I thought it was my 'subjective' hearing that was flawed for a long time due to the K701. I never had the confidence to say I didn't like it until the end!!
The bass in particular is surprising on the K601. You can feel with some recordings that it has no bass at all and then it suddenly appears and goes quite deep too. No bloom on mens voices whatsoever and very very open.
It's kind of been ignored and overshadowed by the K701 for a long time, but I've always felt that it's a real bargain headphone for the sound. I use the two that Frans has modded for me as references and the K601 sounds more 'open' sounding than the T40 with filter switched in and not as 'brittle' as the K550 which has also been modded. I like the K550 in its present state though since it isn't harsh, but has slightly more of a 'bite' in the top than the K601.
For me, the K601 is a lovely compromise between a 'cool' flat sound and the 'warm', Senn HD600 sound. New word for it - Coarm. (Halfway between cool and warm!!)
I have the K612 being sent for a trial so no pressure to like it!! From what I've read, it has the same drivers as the K601 but the housing has been slightly altered which has resulted in the bass being warmed up a bit. I also think the pads are a different material. One thing about the K601 pads is that if you use the headphone a lot (like I do) the pads start to go a bit 'itchy' and need replacing. They also collapse and the sound alters over time. The new pads are velour or velvet, while the old pads are the other one. (Velour or velvet that is!!) I'm not sure, but I am always aware of when they need to be changed since the skin around my ears starts to become itchy when they're old!!
Some people put K702 pads on the K601. They claim that imaging is better (I don't get the image thing on headphones) but it also warms the bottom end up. Some don't like the effects on the mids though. It's an easy mod to do though.
Another is to open up the back plate (The rounded one) by twisting it (with a pin) anticlockwise. It then reveals (after taking a little plate off) the back of the driver, where you can peel off a port cover. This also raises the bass and makes the driver less 'damped'. However, that can also introduce other problems apparently.
So if the new one has a raised bass, I wonder whether they've partially opened that port up? Different material for pads and a slightly new housing makes for a slightly different sound although the basic K601 is there.
Ideally, I would have like the removable cable option that you get with the K7*** series. I hate having too much ot too little cable since I'm often concentrating on something and forget about the cable, resulting in accidents if it's the wrong length!! If I had (and liked) one of the K7**'s, I'd really want three cables - a short one for portable, a standard 9/10 foot for home and a longger 15 - 20 foot for tv at home. I am tempted by the K712 pro but the cost stops me, since with many of these headphones, you discover the flaws further down the road (as I did with the K701 tbh) and it's an expensive headphone really, to be turning your nose up at a later date.
The K612 should arrive soon in any case, so I'll put the K601 up against it.
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Javier
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Post by Javier on Apr 16, 2014 9:53:39 GMT
I only have 3 HPs, namely the K601which is what I'm currently using for home use, the K501 which I use mostly in the summer when due to Madrid's high temperatures the 601 velour pads become unbearable and lastly the Superlux 681B modded by Frans which I use when I go for a walk as they are much better driven by my smartphone (don't have a DAP nor portable amp) and have slightly better isolation though they are terribly microphonic. I had the chance of comparing the HD600 to my 601s and found they had a very similar presentation with the former having better base and refinement and the latter being more comfortable to use. I've used so much my 601 so much since I got them almost 15 years ago that the transparent plastic tabs that hold the headband are broken and the pads are very much worn out but AKG parts are very expensive and funds are almost non existent ATM so I have to try to enjoy them in less than optimal shape. Still I appreciate the extra bass and refinement over the 501s and overall SQ over the 681s which have a bit of an exagerated U shaped signature to my liking for "at home" use. It'll be nice if you could.posts some pics of the 612 beside the 601 for comparisson.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 16, 2014 10:49:33 GMT
Well, here are the K601's: splashurl.com/oavm2obI can't get pictures to come up on here any more. I don't get it. I copied the link and pasted here, but they just don't come up!! The new ones have arrived. Look just the same with dark pads. Bass is very slightly higher than the original making them seem a little less cool. I quite like them actually, since the opn sound is still there and they are just a touch closer to the Senn HD600. The casing looks the same to me. Pads are a little harder because they are newer so I wonder whether it's the pads that are altering the sound? Balance from top to bottom seems very good and the difference in the bottom end is pretty small, but is definitely there. To my ears, it's a slightly better headphone in that it has a tad more richness to the sound and they don't 'shout' as much at higher volume. Whether that's becuase the top is more 'balanced' with the bass or whether the top is slightly calmer, I'm not sure tbh. There is more richness to the bottom which is what I got from the K712 as well. (A bit more I think with the 712 though) If I were to buy a k6** new, I think I would go for the K612. The bass isn't boomy or heavy, just slightly better defined. The K6** are very neutral headphones tbh. They compare really well with my 'treated' headphones.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 16, 2014 13:02:31 GMT
Direct comparison with the K601
Cable is black and the K601 is grey. The K601 cable is slightly thicker and less rubbery than the K612. There is a screw fit on the plug so you don't need a convertor for mobile amps. (yay!!) The leather band and assembly is the same but the cups seem a little darker in colour so there is more of a contrast with the silver middle section where the driver is. The two struts above are blac instead of greay as well. I prefer the dark colours of the K612 to the old greay of the K601. Material looks the same to me although I have read that it might be different.
Pads are a bit harder, but that could be because my K601 is quite old now. They look about the same depth but the material may be different. A bit more velvety not velour perhaps? Pressure on head is the same. Both are really comfortable.
Listening for an hour or so, I do feel that it IS an improvement on the K601. It's slightly more mellow. Treble is terrific. Not tizzy and not sounding at all rolled away. To me it sounds pretty neutral. In fact, I feel that the treble is slightly different from the K601. Whether that's because it has a slightly warmer bass counteracting it or whether there are changes I'm not certain. The K601 has the same top, but doesn't quite sound so textured as this. I wonder whether the pads are doing this actually? In which case, change the K601 pads to these and it's an improvement. It's not quite as shouty at loud volume.
Bass is a tiny bit rounder and has a slightly more 'full' feel to it. They are both very 'rubber band' like down there in that electric bass really twangs beautifully, but the K612 also has a richness which makes the bass sound very open and full. Something I really noticed with the K712 yesterday actually.
I can't find a FR graph for the K612. Whether that's because it's exactly the same or there are indeed changes in the bass remains to be seen. It could be that I'm hearing the effect of new pads. I may change the pads to K702's since they are angled and push the cups a little further out. The pads with them are the same thickness all the way around, like the old pads, except they are black. (And dust magnets)
Really, the K612 is a lovely sounding headphone and I guess will be overlooked because of the K702 and K712. If money were no object, I'dgo for the K712 I think. I really enjoyed that one a lot and we're talking small amounts of change in effect between that and the K701 which I didn't like. It just sounds more of a 'matured' headphone. The K612 is the same. It sounds like a small development of the K601, but enough in the long run to be worth having instead of the K601.
However, if you already have a K601, they are small differences, but if you want an upgrade, I think this is good. It's tiny, but still an improvement; something which I do prefer actually, since they aren't changing the world,but making small tweaks which improve things as far as the whole picture goes.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 16, 2014 14:36:13 GMT
I've changed the pads for K702 ones which are a bit harder and angle the drivers. The differences don't seem profound to me. For the cost, I'm not sure I'd replace them with these pads unless I was due a pad change. The company sent me the pads because I asked for them to try with the K612. The main difference is a raised bass and curtailed top. Mids become weaker, but to me, it's more a tonal change, making the headphone warm and Senn like with still very good detail. Basically a shift in tone which some might prefer to the cooler sound of the K612 or 601.
Listening to Santana so they get a good opportunity to show any bass bloom with these pads just reveals a pretty strong bass actually in relation to the treble. There is something different about this headphone in comparison to the K601 but it's not blatantly obvious to me exactly what it is.
It has become more relaxed sounding. The bass quality and quantity is really very good. (K702 pads now) Sounds are placed very precisely and of all the headphones I have, I'd say that this gives perhaps a better image, because it's one of the few that I can actually place the sounds with confidence. They don't leave the confines of my head (as happens with EVERY headphone I have - I don't get this 'out of head' sound hardly ever) but I can tell within very short spaces, where instruments are from left to right. There is also some depth info there so I can hear that some sounds are further behind others.
I did a little digital recording myself and wandered around the room while I spoke. The headphones portray very accurately where I was, with no exaggeration. (Some headphones make the distances seem bigger or smaller) This does the job pretty well. Sibilance could be an issue with some gear I suspect as was the case with the older version. With my lovely Ember, it isn't an issue at all.
If these headphones were speakers, I'd say that they were lightening fast. Theres a really open and lucid quality about the sound that would need a damned good speaker to reproduce - even then, I think room resonances would stop a lot of the lucidness happening. These sound like you are in an 'acoustically treated' room with a very high quality speaker. The slight raise in the bass from these really does help that feeling. There is a tad more warmth, although now, I'm not sure whether its the headphone or the pads. It's very slight, but in the 'overall picture' it really helps to make this headphone so much less 'clinical'.
Bass lines from Santana hit with real weight and the sound is beautifully 'springy'. Bass lines are extremely easily followed. Not because they are loud, but just clearly etched in the sound. (Again, you get this with high end speakers) Santana's guitar is mellow, with no harshness in the top and vocals are really top notch. Absolutely brilliant in the mids - the K612 has one of the best mid sounds I've heard on headphones.
Directly comparing now with the K601 on Classical music, the top edge is MUCH less with these pads. More bass presence amd less top sizzle. In fact, it is now closer to the Senn HD600 interms of sound. So that top sibilance is reduced and there is definitely more bass. Very noticeable when you switch between them. It's a lot more relaxed than the K601 and places you a little further back in the audience than the original K601.
I have always regarded the K601 as a brilliant buy because of the same things as the K612 but always been aware of two things that could have been better with some recordings, perhaps. One is the treble quality - where I felt that if you had a harsh recording, they could become very tiring, almost verging on the K701 'ringing' sound in the top. Not as bad but if the recording was edgy and you listened loud, the headphone could become a bit hard and shouty. The K612 is much less stinging in the treble. Bass quality is good with the K601 although it could be (for some) a bit on the weak side. It is raised on the K612.
IMO, the K612 seems to have fixed both of these issues to some extent and lost a tad of the original 'openness'. The treble is brilliantly portrayed though. Quite a bit of splash up there, but not harsh. I can play these louder without the 'shout' taking over. (That may be lower down in the treble though, not the top itself) The bass is spot on. Just the right amount of presence and a 'rubber band' feel on the strings which is more often heard on better quality speakers. Where on cheaper speakers, you get a thud and you hear the note, on good speakers you her the thud and the note, but also get this insight into the quality of sound that the bass actually makes. It's hard to describe, but you are much more aware that it's a string vibrating rather than get the Beyer DT770 'thud' bass!! Also, because you can play a bit louder without the 'shout' sound, the bass really develops a lot more at highre volume as a result. I'm also listening a low output impedance rather than 100 ohms out.
This headphone portrays textures beautifully and it makes me want to buy the K712 if I'm honest. This does a lot right. It's a slight improvement on the K601 - some might say a lot of improvement in the bass by comparison. I have always liked the K601 and this is further developed and is reminding me very much of the lovely K712 sound I heard yesterday.
However, there's that price for the K712, so in my eyes, this one is a really good deal. At £115 from DV247 (quick plug) delivered, you would be hard pushed to find anything better imo.
I've decided that I'm going to keep these. (and the K702 pads) You can hear straight away that these are really good quality headphones.
Swiwtching back to K612 pads shows that the 702's do actually make the K612 a little bit darker. The original pads add a little more top presence and stronget mids so for now, I'll stick with the original pads.
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Javier
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Post by Javier on Apr 17, 2014 7:22:50 GMT
Great review Ian, many thanks. I wish I could give them a try though no chance of getting any new gear any time soon. One think I'd like to see are the graphs of the 612 and compare them to the 601's, hope the people at goldenears manage to borrow a unit.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 17, 2014 9:49:13 GMT
More just my thoughts on the Javier. Differences between the K601 and K612 are quite minor I think so if you already use the K601, I wouldn't rush to upgrade. The K702 pads were a surprise though.
I felt that pushing the drivers away from the ears and angling them would (if anything) cut the bass but in fact, the opposite happens. You get more bass and less treble. In fact, they sound like a Senn HD600 that way. (More open version) The image is possible better focused as well.
I'm not sure that it's any 'better' but just different. It's a nice sound but you can hear a 'tilt' in the FR which makes them very warm if you're used to the standard AKG sound. I'm just not sure which I prefer. What is surprising is just how close in sound it is to the Sennheiser HD6** with these pads. It is beautifully rich sounding actually and if you like the Senn sound, you'd like the pads. The bass is tremendous with them. Really well defined. In comparison to Senns, the mids are slightly reduced but bass and treble are virtually the same. That really surprised me tbh.
I am very tempted by the K712 but I'll wait for a price drop!! They have a similar bass.
BTW, the pads wash nicely. I cleaned the K601 pads for the first time today and they have come out really nicely. At the moment, I have the 702 pads on the old 601 - not sure if I'll revert back to the old ones yet. I like the lushness from the 702 pads.
I've left the K612 as it is. Very close to standard 601 though.
I still think it's a real bargain that is totally overshadowed. Changster mentions a 2KHz hump, but it hasn't bothered me (if it is actually there and ot some artifact from measurements) To me, it's not glassy, but a warm headphone. Honestly, if I compare it to my modded K550, it is actually warmer than that in the treble.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Jun 1, 2014 10:20:52 GMT
Golden ears measured it: Link to Golden ears: Golden ears K612it does show some ringing but is rather short lived: It is very neutral sounding. It does have the same 2.5kHz ringing/peak the K701 shows but lacks the peak higher up. At 120 Ohm these headphones are very easy to drive for 'lightweight' amps.
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Javier
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Post by Javier on Jun 13, 2014 18:00:20 GMT
As much as I love the AKGs, they would certainly benefit from a little extra kick in the sub 100Hz area.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jun 13, 2014 19:29:32 GMT
As much as I love the AKGs, they would certainly benefit from a little extra kick in the sub 100Hz area. I think the K612 has a slightly bigger 100Hz hump Javier. It does go down, but possibly half the volume at around 20 Hz. I did a frequenct test on them and they do go down but not as loud down there as HD650. However, with 702 pads, they become quite strong in mid bass (Which I didn't like) and treble is curtailed. Funny thing is that the treble seems powerful on the 612 but it's not actually as extended imo as some people feel. I have a feeling that the top is rolled away slightly too, but I don't really mind it too much. Of course, when the graphs for the K612 are published, I'll be proved wrong!! I'll predict ..... Rolled down bass to about half volume at 20 Hz. Curtailed treble extension, but a hump or lift up there somewhere that makes it 'seem' bright and detailed. 100 hz hump that's not as much as others but still there. I wonder with the Philips Frans, whether they're trying to kind of emulatethe Senn sound and so rolled it away at the top. Gives the impression of a 'grown up' headphone with a realtively boosted bass. I often find that the bass seems way bigger if you tone the top end down, so perhaps they did this on purpose, although it's still a bit ragged in the end anyway. I was always very curious about the old Philips and missed the last one. (just) I decided to try one and they were no longer around. (In fact, I think I sent that one over for you didn't I Frans?) - I think it was you!! I never got one for myself.
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Javier
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Post by Javier on Jun 14, 2014 8:42:37 GMT
The K612 graphs looks very similar to those of the K601:
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jun 14, 2014 11:24:47 GMT
Yes, the shape is very similar. The 2khz peak is there, but also a bigger one around 7khz, which isn't there on the k612. Also, if you compare 100hz the k612 is actually slightly stronger, which is what I think I'm hearing.
On first listen, they sound really close. However, direct comparison reveals the k612 to be slightly more mellow tbh and a warmer treble than the k601 with a slightly raised bass.
The k612 is my current fom!!
I've always liked the k601 and have not found its flaws to be intrusive. I really love it's neutral sound, but the 612 is a slight improvement imo. It's more even over the spectrum and less toppy.
The k702 pad trick is perhaps more beneficial to the k601 than the k612. I find many Headfi reports to be a bit ott and misleading and the recent craze of changing the pads has been overstated. The k601. Becomes a big bass sound with the treble curtailed, but imo, others areas are affected that many guys who go on about it there have missed. They focus on the obvious changes (bigger bass and less treble) but they don't seem so hot on the recessed mids and lack of air and also (maybe) soundstage.
It's weary to get carried away with the big fat bass that you get from them, but imo, it's not deep bass and just makes the headphone more congested.
I really like both the k601 and 612 with a preference for the k612. In fact, I'm using it more than the hd600 since it has such a lovely open feel about it. I just wish the cable could be removed so I could swap between short and long for mobile and home.
I'm still tempted by the more expensive brothers but I'm stone broke now with the house for the time being. In time, I may go for one of the brothers!!
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Aug 19, 2014 9:35:40 GMT
Playing around with k702 pads again, this time from a different retailer. The bass is back but the mids don't seem as recessed as they were with my first pair. I think the first pair (if I could find them in my moving rubble) are a lot harder.
These pads are closer in density to the original pads with a raised back edge and the result seems to be slightly better mids if my memory serves me right. When I manage to find the old pads I will compare direct.
This pair seems to sound fine. Bass is harder hitting and the top and is slightly less shrill. When I first heard it I thought that the mids were really back in the mix but they seem better on the new pair. Changing the pads really seems to make them sound more like a Sennheiser headphone with real bass clout.
Detail retrieval seems about the same. Since there is less emphasis on the top end though you tend to feel that there is less but this isn't the case.
I'll stick with this configuration for now just to see how it feels in the long term
I liked the K712 but I am beginning to wonder whether it's a simple pad difference mostly, since to me, the 612 now reminds me of it!! Change the bars to copper colour and change the pads and you have a 712?
This pad change also works on the k601 in the same way.
I must say, I do like the k612 a lot either with original pads or as a Senn clone with k702 pads!! It's still a great buy.
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