Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jun 6, 2014 19:12:00 GMT
I've been listening closely to some Senn cx300 and 400s. Both described as bass led iem's and basically that is a good description of their sound.
I like them both quite a lot but today, I plugged the cx300 into an amp rather than straight from the IPod.
The bass is actually slightly lessened and the sound is less bloated!! I felt that this must have been my imagination, so I swapped quickly back and forth.
The cx300 is very sensitive and I've never even considered an amp with it, but it seems to make a slight difference to the bass clarity in particular. It just needs a very quiet amp.
Perhaps it is putting some kind of demand on the IPod output? It seems quite strange that a sensitive iem is better from a separate amp in terms of the bass in particular. Perhaps it's very demanding in terms of current?
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Jun 6, 2014 21:29:19 GMT
16 Ohm impedance (but almost resistive) is kind off on the low side for i-stuff. Most i-stuff has coupling capacitors which rolls-off the bass in the audible region.
This introduces phase shifts and a raised output impedance with the i-stuff. Depending on the amp used this may not be the case so an amp is likely to not exhibit the roll-off nor phase shifts.
Both 300 and 400 are 16 Ohms (in practice probably a few Ohms higher)
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jun 7, 2014 7:39:03 GMT
So it should be the other way around? The cx300 seems to sound flabby from the IPod direct but cleaner sounding from the O2. More 'in control' in the bass area.
My expectation was to hear no difference given that they're so easy to drive.
With higher impedance, bass goes really thin on the IPod and bass appears since it hits better with an amp, but the cx300 seems to be the other way around.
My ears must be going nuts!!
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Jun 7, 2014 8:18:07 GMT
Nope, it means the bass should roll-off on the i-crap (because of the output capacitance and the low impedance of the headphone) strange bass on the i-crap could be because of roll-off, because of phase shifts in the audible domain and (unlikely) damping factor because of the increase in output R of the i-crap at lower frequencies.
The O2 has none of those problems (no roll-off, no drive issues, no phase shifts) and doesn't load the i-crap.
You can check your sanity by using Sansa stuff and repeating the test. The Sansa can drive 16 Ohm, has low output R and no phase shifts nor roll-off. It just has MUCH less output power than O2 but on 'normal' levels should not sound any different from Sansa (providing the listening levels are carefully matched)
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jun 7, 2014 9:47:58 GMT
Ok Frans. Thanks for that. I'll try it. At first I just swapped and noticed some kind of subtle difference and once curious, I continually switched between the two, which is when I noticed it. The cx300 type iem's are aimed at IPod like users, yet to my ears, they aren't quite so good until the amp is in the middle. At first, I thought it must be something to do with current required. The other thing that is obvious is just how quiet the O2 is. No signs of hiss even on 16 ohm iem's. I meant to ask - did you get the 1350 pads? I feel a great deal happier with them although I don't 'think' fr is particularly different. In my case, partial seal was the problem without me being aware of it. I've been trying Comply tips on the Senns and they have proved to be worth their weight in gold. Terrific seal so the sound stays really stable, even if you're chewing gum!!! I really like these tips although they are too expensive. Bass on the cx series is quite massive with the tips but not so bad for outdoor mobile use when the raised bass helps to blot the world out a little more and it 'seems' less outdoors. The amp helps to get it more under control. I'm trying to get enough nerve to wear the dt1350 in public though!!
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Jun 7, 2014 10:47:37 GMT
DT1350 pads are making their way over the North sea.
I never cared for buds nor in-ears. They don't fit me, can't get a good seal and don't like shoving things in my ears.
Will probably have to redesign the filter for it but reckon it will be better than the EDT1350NL pads and the original DT1350 pads.
All these different pads have quite some impact to the sound though many claim the NL pads and originals sound the same they measure (and sound) very different to me. I expect the 67 mm pads to have the same sonic signature as the original pads though as they are made of the same materials, just a little wider. Will know next week....
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jun 7, 2014 11:29:02 GMT
I find buds a problem too Frans. The Comply tips are the easiest for me.
You get some where the material is just too hard and inflexible. They irritate my ears and often lets the seal break. Then you get some (Sennheisers actually) can be too soft and again break the seal very easily. However, they don't irritate the ears so much.
Fitted ones like my ie8 ones are fine as long as your ear doesn't itch!!
The Comply tips are very soft and mould to your ear so there is actually much less force to the inside of your ear and it moves with your ear canal to an extent. Some claim that they deaden the treble but I have found that Tyll's theory about the end closing over is correct. It's just getting into the habit of flattening the front of the tips first and then the treble is retained.
It's just that iem's are way more convenient for outdoor use and less obtrusive, although sound is compromised to some extent.
I'm looking forward to what those pads show. i don't think there is a great deal of difference, except in comfort. For me though, the difference was in the seal so the headphone immediately improved.
Interstingly, going straight from the Senn iem's to the DT1350 does highlight the 'cuppiness' you spoke of a week or so ago. It's not as strong as some others but I got it for a short time before I acclimatised and no longer heard it!!
I think my brain quickly adapts to things like that. In fact, it's quicker than I thought since on a quick change I heard it and then about 30 seconds later, I couldn't identify it any longer. How weird is that?
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