solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Jan 20, 2015 8:19:43 GMT
I wrote down my thoughts on ' burn-in' Would like to hear opinions, views or remarks about this subject as it is one of ´those´ subjects that have fierce advocates and people who don´t believe-care.
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sekar
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Post by sekar on Jan 20, 2015 14:40:51 GMT
Hi Frans. It's very delicate subject. When I begin to listen music in K601 HP being driven by power amp there is some difference in music after 5 - 10 minutes of listening when large amplifier get warm up. Is it very noticeable and in what degree ? It depends upon on musical stuff you perceive and your ability to properly and attentively hear. I may confess I burnt -in my new GM 400 HP about 200 hours by music but to make clear and authoritative conclusion about results you need to have 2 pairs of same HP - one new pair and one pair having been burnt in . You need to do blind test and compare results. As for me burn in process for improving quality of components and cables ( especially ) is ridiculous reason to squeeze some money from you make you buy some specially discs . It's matter of your beliefs finally ..... Reason to begin holy war .
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Jan 20, 2015 15:41:49 GMT
Its what I did when I received 3x HD661 for evaluation. One I left untouched, one I burnt in and one was used for experimenting with mods. The first 2 sounded the same before the burn-in process, so much so that I had to conceal a mark telling them apart if needed. The third one I used for experiment with, it sounded slightly different from the other 2 from the start so couldn't be used for the comparison.
After a burn-in period (I thought it was around 4 days or so, would have to check) I wasn't able to tell them apart so nothing seems to have changed audibly to my ears.
It is one of those inflamatory subjects indeed. On the other hand it is good to read about different experiences and opinions. As long as there are no violent reactions to other peoples opinions and they are just taken for what they are ... opinions ... than opinions can exist side by side.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jan 20, 2015 17:52:54 GMT
I don't normally hear much difference in headphones from new to however many hundred hours tbh. I only had one that arrived with no bass as you remember probably, Frans. It was very thin and after half an hour, the bass appeared. I think you had the same with one of the Superlux models.
I adjust so quickly to the sound of headphones, I probably wouldn't notice normally if it did change.
What I am suspicious of his how they all seem to improve with time. I don't remember seeing a report ever, of a headphone that turned out worse!!!
Even better is headphone cable burn in. I can't tell one cable from another, so burn in for me is non existent to be sure. I felt robbed when I once bought a cable. Made me feel bad and very stupid having spent the kind of money I did on a wire, thanks to a hi fi guy.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Jan 20, 2015 18:03:36 GMT
I have the same questions... why is it everything seems to 'improve' with burn-in ?
Even with mains cables this has been reported.
It is obvious though that something changes in headphones mechanically when spanking new. I question the audibility of it in 99% of all reports.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jan 20, 2015 18:15:23 GMT
Also, with new headphones or anything new, you tend to listen much more carefully than you normally would.
Very often, when I listen, I slob out with a beer and just listen without worrying about what I'm using. I tend to pick up whatever is closest and just use it. I soon adjust tbh. Also, while carefully listening, we tend to turn the volume up and so hear amazing bass etc.........
Your frame of mind is also very different with anything new. I think long term usage is much more of an indicator though. How you feel after a month or so is more of an I dication as to how good the gear is I think.
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oldson
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Post by oldson on Jan 20, 2015 19:45:54 GMT
i assume we are talking just headphones here? i have read elsewhere that some believe even their USB cables "burned in" . i stopped reading the posts at that point. Ian did you not try burning in your headphone cable on the radiator the other day?
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Jan 20, 2015 19:59:45 GMT
yes, headphones (as well as speakers) alter some of their properties in the first couple of hours. The audibility of it is questionable. Some drivers may not even change at all. I know about Superlux models that some can go from bass-shy to bassy in a matter of minutes where others of the same model do not change at all.
Ronzo's LCD2 may have degraded in SQ quite quickly so it can be the other way around as well BUT that driver was clearly faulty.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jan 20, 2015 20:50:52 GMT
Ian did you not try burning in your headphone cable on the radiator the other day? Yes, I take burn in very seriously ..... And literally. I straightened out the cable on my K551. A good scorching helped.
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sekar
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Post by sekar on Jan 20, 2015 22:24:25 GMT
Because I make interconnect cables by myself from not expensive mike cables based on copper multi cores i may confess that i didn't hear any difference in sound between all of them . They are based on studio quality inexpensive Canare and Schulz wires. Only in one case I made cable from relatively expensive coaxial cable Schulz with two layers of shielding from different stuff , silver plated copper and cable with same construction but with simple copper. I used these two cables to connect DAC and MFXC v.1 and I got sense that silver plated cable gave me some more air and space but it didn't get changed after 50 -100 hours of listening .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2015 0:51:54 GMT
The only headphones I've ever experienced burn-in with are my HD 650's. No other headphones have exhibited this. I have always experienced burn-in with loudspeakers though, to a greater or lesser degree. I've never heard burn-in being a factor in electronics.
As far as cables are concerned I have always felt I could hear differences. More so in speaker cables. I now have Mogami and it's the best I've used. I don't have high-end equipment though so that maybe makes a difference.
I bought an aftermarket HD 650 cable from Forza Audio Works in Poland and I don't use it any more. I actually prefer the stock cable supplied by Sennheiser.
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oldson
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Post by oldson on Jan 21, 2015 19:20:37 GMT
Also, with new headphones or anything new, you tend to listen much more carefully than you normally would. Very often, when I listen, I slob out with a beer and just listen without worrying about what I'm using. I tend to pick up whatever is closest and just use it. I soon adjust tbh. Also, while carefully listening, we tend to turn the volume up and so hear amazing bass etc......... Your frame of mind is also very different with anything new. I think long term usage is much more of an indicator though. How you feel after a month or so is more of an I dication as to how good the gear is I think. i would say you are spot on , mate. we have beer goggles and beer ears! i dont think i listen critically enough to notice any burn-in, even if it does exist. i think i have only owned 3 headphones from new.... ath-a900, ah-d7000 and lcd2. if any of these burned-in, i missed it. with my limited knowledge i am prepared to believe that speakers and headphones may burn-in, due to the moving parts. But i refuse to believe cables do it. for example some say mains cables burn-in!! does that mean if i move to a brand new house, the ring mains would burn-in too?
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Crispy
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Madrigal music is playing - Voices can faintly be heard, "Please leave this patient undisturbed."
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Post by Crispy on Jan 21, 2015 20:58:51 GMT
yes, headphones (as well as speakers) alter some of their properties in the first couple of hours. The audibility of it is questionable. Some drivers may not even change at all. I know about Superlux models that some can go from bass-shy to bassy in a matter of minutes where others of the same model do not change at all. I am sat on the fence with burn Frans, sometimes I think I can hear a difference after a certain period of usage, but a good example is my Harma deep cryo valves. I have been using them in my XCan V1 for the moment and because they have not been used for a while they sound a little bright, but after half an hour the were getting on par with my 6n23eb valves? So it may not burn in as such but they certainly perform better once they have warmed up for half an hour or so.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jan 21, 2015 21:06:07 GMT
Valves do need to warm up to be at heir best, Chris. I have my amp on for half an hour before I use it. They don't work as efficiently when cold.
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Crispy
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Post by Crispy on Jan 21, 2015 21:09:07 GMT
Valves do need to warm up to be at heir best, Chris. I have my amp on for half an hour before I use it. They don't work as efficiently when cold. Cheers Ian I will have to start putting my gear on 30mins before a decent listen
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