solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Dec 11, 2013 7:19:44 GMT
A very narrow peak cannot be corrected with the filter. Only wide and general peaks can be corrected.
For this reason you cannot correct all headphones nor can they be corrected perfectly but sure can bring them closer.
I have found that it taken me quite some time to 'adjust' to a flat presentation. When you look closely at almost all plots out there you will notice most are 'humped' in the bass and or mids. Drop off a certain degree around 4kHz and subsequently peak in the 8-10kHz area where some drop off behind it or have ragged behaviour.
Once you start listening to a more accurate sound which thus in general adds some clarity (the 4kHz is lifted by several dB) and have more extension the brain needs time to adjust to this. Certainly on some recordings or types of music I do not find a flat headphone beneficial. On well recorded material, however, I always experience 'flat' headphones to sound extremely real. Crappy or mediocre recordings sound just that and often sound shrill and boring/lifeless.
If you want less top end but do want the mids boost there are a few other tricks that can be used but involve adding a resistor + capacitor on the bottom (or top) of the PCB. When you increase Rx06 in value the lift in de mids is affected first,
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Post by markym on Jan 7, 2014 19:16:11 GMT
Hi, I am new here and am interested in getting a board or perhaps a kit or assembled unit. (depending on the price) I am in the US. How do I proceed? Thanks! --Mark--
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Jan 7, 2014 21:01:00 GMT
Hi Mark, Welcome to the forum. Bare boards can be purchased from me directly or (for the US) from Jeremy ( garage1217) which is known here as member ' jhelms'. Jeremy can also make assembled units. For European customers for assembled units one of forum admins ' Javier' can be contacted. Just click on the names for contact details.
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Post by markym on Jan 8, 2014 0:40:33 GMT
Hi Mark, Welcome to the forum. Bare boards can be purchased from me directly or (for the US) from Jeremy ( garage1217) which is known here as member ' jhelms'. Jeremy can also make assembled units. For European customers for assembled units one of forum admins ' Javier' can be contacted. Just click on the names for contact details. Thank you very much solderdude.
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Post by musicman1806 on Jan 10, 2014 19:07:11 GMT
I recently acquired a nice pair of used hifiman HE400 at a decent price in order to test out the world of planar-magnetics. Needless to say, I'm now hooked OLDSON, your post said you were going to review the lcd-2/3 he500/6 last year 2013. If you got around to doing that , I'd like to know your opinions. As much as I do like he400, EQ is a must for me, especially using HD600 as my reference HPs (with no EQ). Question: is the he400 not on the filter list because its FR is to wild to be tamed ? If so, I would be looking at another "relatively affordable" pair of used planar magnetics, possibly he500 which I see is on the filter list.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2014 19:35:17 GMT
I recently acquired a nice pair of used hifiman HE400 at a decent price in order to test out the world of planar-magnetics. Needless to say, I'm now hooked OLDSON, your post said you were going to review the lcd-2/3 he500/6 last year 2013. If you got around to doing that , I'd like to know your opinions. As much as I do like he400, EQ is a must for me, especially using HD600 as my reference HPs (with no EQ). Question: is the he400 not on the filter list because its FR is to wild to be tamed ? If so, I would be looking at another "relatively affordable" pair of used planar magnetics, possibly he500 which I see is on the filter list. i think you may have misunderstood my post. have looked for the post you refer to but cant find it.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Jan 10, 2014 20:00:31 GMT
I recently acquired a nice pair of used hifiman HE400 at a decent price in order to test out the world of planar-magnetics. Needless to say, I'm now hooked OLDSON, your post said you were going to review the lcd-2/3 he500/6 last year 2013. If you got around to doing that , I'd like to know your opinions. As much as I do like he400, EQ is a must for me, especially using HD600 as my reference HPs (with no EQ). Question: is the he400 not on the filter list because its FR is to wild to be tamed ? If so, I would be looking at another "relatively affordable" pair of used planar magnetics, possibly he500 which I see is on the filter list. The HE400 can be filtered. A slightly different compensation from HE500 is needed. I could make a filter suggestion specifically for it. All the Hifiman (and also true for Audeze) have very similar compensation.
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Post by imstimpy on Mar 7, 2014 16:44:11 GMT
I just finished perusing this thread, and I've also made my way through the explanation portion of the manual. I've contacted Jeremy to see if I can buy a few boards to try my hand at correcting the AKG701, Denon D2000, and the Beyere DT880s.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Mar 7, 2014 19:09:33 GMT
The K701 and D2000 just happen to be 2 of the headphones that are difficult to correct due to the nature of their problems. The K701 seems to improve acc. to Micmacmo though, more/better lows and less sibilant but as the sibilance is decreased also the 'detailing' is less as these go hand in hand.
Of course the filters can also be changed somewhat to suit ones taste or to get closer the Olive-Welti target or other compensations. The DT880 can be corrected well I reckon.
Before you start on boards I recommend to simulate the correction curve with an equalizer. Play a bit with the settings and perhaps you can even find a better setting or find out the headphones do not react well to corrections.
I owned K701, DT880 and heard D2000 and D7000. The K701 and DT880 were sold in the end because of lack of bass extension.
Something between the DT880/K701 and D2000 (with slightly less highs) would be close to ideal. Compensation can get you there or at least come very close.
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Post by imstimpy on Mar 7, 2014 19:15:37 GMT
Is there an recommended EQ to experiment with or is any means, software or hardware, good enough?
Bass extension is the primary piece I was hoping to address on the K701. Personally, I have never thought of bass boosting as a good thing- I worry it compromises the quality of the existing bass.
I was looking to decrease the big bass a touch on the D2000, then add a little more brightness to them. Granted, I'm comparing the K701 to the Denon so what one headphone does well really contradicts with the other...
It is more realistic to say the headphone correction board is better served to decrease frequency spikes than increase frequency deficiencies?
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Mar 7, 2014 19:21:43 GMT
for a course idea of how the tonal balance will become software and hardware will be O.K. as long as it has bands that come close the those that need some correction. If you like the tonal balance with that EQ or have found a somewhat different setting then a filter can be constructed that makes a closer matching correction. The filter board has the advantage that it has less phase shifts and more exact compensation than analog graphic EQ. Some digital EQ has some side effects as well which the board doesn't have. a very simple player for instance with a 'decent' EQ is AIMP or VLC. There are better players, like foobar etc but the ones mentioned above are 'lightweight' and easy to install/remove.
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Post by imstimpy on Mar 8, 2014 16:48:47 GMT
As best I can tell, VLC lacks the adjust frequencies to work on the D2000 or the K701. I can tug down the 12K by 5db and it takes care of the sibilance of the D2000, but otherwise the rest of the adjustments sound wrong. No amount of fiddling allows the highs to fill in like the K701 (maybe the K701 is wrong?). My Denons, remember, are modded with damping material in the chassis and denser, thicker pads, so I imagine the frequency plots are now wrong compared to my cans.
Neither VLC nor iTunes have the right frequencies to touch the high frequencies of the K701. I like the upper frequencies, though... The missing bass is what makes the K701 uninteresting in orchestral music, and some bass boost confirms that.
While the D2000 sounds a little thin in the male vocals, the DT880 sounds tinny. The DT880 does appear to happily improve with a boost in 2K-4K and a decrease at 8K. Add a little bass boost and it seems the DT880 may be correctable.
I have no idea which is most "accurate", but the DT880 is sounded good after some correction.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Mar 8, 2014 19:48:27 GMT
The K701 has 2 narrow problem areas right next to each other. The higher one is the most obnoxious one and the filter can only take care of 1. As you can see it needs compensation for the lows (a LOT of you want to reach Olive-Welti which is close to the 'target' in this plot. 2.5k and 5k-10k are the main problem areas and give these cans the idea they are highly detailed (5k-10k) and make the mids sound so forward (2.5k) It also lacks some air WHEN these peaks are compensated as the lack of air (HF extension above 12k) is masked by the peak at 10kHz. The fact that it needs to narrow peaks corrected and quite some bass boost makes it difficult to correct as you also take away it's strong points (detail and spaciousness). A bit like a filter corrected HD800 which will loose its hyper detail (as that is caused by the elevated treble part). The D2000 can be corrected somewhat but the bass remains 'flabby' to me (perhaps not so with Lawtons mods) and indeed may need other compensation which you would have to figure out. De D2000 actually needs a 'lift' (like the T50RP's) and the highs lowered slightly. The duality about that dip is that it is actually a resonance in disguise meaning it rings there. So IF you pull up the sliders there the resonance becomes more pronounced. This is why it is difficult to correct the Dx000 The DT880 basically needs its peak removed and some gentle corrective measures to sound good and responds better to it than the other two. Removing the peak, as with the K701, also removes some of the air and hyper (fake) detail BUT the DT880 can show some real fine details (like the HD650 can as well when not 'overpowered' by the lows. AIMP has more frequency bands than VLC (I don't do i-things so don't know about that) so you may want to give that one a try. Installs quickly without going deep into Windhose and uninstall is without problems. I liked the DT880 and thought it sounded good with EQ, also easier to compensate. The headphones that just need a gentle nudge and do not need narrow EQ bands do compensate better. Between D2000, DT880 and K701 I prefer the tonal balance/sound sig of the D2000 the most. All of them (as are more expensive headphones) are flawed in some way. I could very well live with an EQ'ed DT880 but my personal preference lies in planar speakers and headphones (the latter compensated ones)
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Post by imstimpy on Mar 8, 2014 23:38:52 GMT
Awesome post, Frans. You are describing exactly what I am hearing. I'll have a look at AIMP later this weekend. My Windows system has a lot of loud fans so I tend not to use it for critical listening.
The Lawton mods tightened up the bass, but I don't have any measurements proving that. I've asked Mark (Lawton) if he has frequency plots but I haven't heard back from him yet. The tonal balance/sound sig of the D2000 is very good when paired with gear that isn't coloring the sound.
I don't care for the uncorrected DT880. Once corrected, though, it picks up a LOT. Very neat to have access to a "correctable" headphone.
Interesting concept: go shopping for headphones that have a good house sound, but also a fixable frequency range to boot.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Mar 9, 2014 10:33:51 GMT
Interesting concept: go shopping for headphones that have a good house sound, but also a fixable frequency range to boot. That's exactly it .... A good headphone can be turned into a great one but you can't turn all headphones into great ones. Even if ALL headphones were all EQ'ed perfectly they would all sound the same tonally balance wise BUT can still tell the good ones apart from the lesser ones.
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