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Post by Mr Trev on Feb 6, 2018 16:41:53 GMT
Fantastic. It'll be nice to see some impartial measurements and impressions. Finally get some answers to the mystery
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Post by miiksu on Feb 6, 2018 17:08:56 GMT
Both pairs of P82 now on their way to Frans to measure. Subjectively a good sounding portable headphone (firmly prefer the newer pair now) for not a lot of cash, but will is it one that will please those of a more objective disposition? I have no idea tbh (my ears like quirky tuning too much)! From a purely personal p.o.v. I'm more interested in seeing just how differently my pairs measure. With further listening I suspect it is more than I initially thought. Not sure if it will be possible to tell for sure but I also wonder how much of that can be directly attributed to the changes to the drivers and how much to 'normal' production variance. There may well be an element of both. That is nice to hear. I hope they measure well. Does it take long? Are u both from same country?
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jello
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Post by jello on Feb 6, 2018 17:45:56 GMT
That is nice to hear. I hope they measure well. Does it take long? Are u both from same country? Different countries. I'm from Scotland and Frans is in The Netherlands so he probably won't receive them until next week. Usually he seems to post initial measurements up fairly quickly but does depend on how much spare time he has available.
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Post by jello on Feb 6, 2018 18:47:30 GMT
Fantastic. It'll be nice to see some impartial measurements and impressions. Finally get some answers to the mystery Hey! When it comes to impressions I'm impartial. Not necessarily reliable. But impartial all the same But everyone's ears, experiences and dare I say it (in some cases) motives are different, which is why I take a lot of impressions with a huge pinch of salt unless its a poster or reviewer whose ears and opinion I trust. And often better to let the dust settle a bit because hype can be infectious. It is always good to get Frans' take on a pair of headphones. No bias, no sugar coating and he says it like he sees it (backed by measurements). Not everyone will like that but still...
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Post by Mr Trev on Feb 6, 2018 22:29:29 GMT
Partially impartial?? Impartially particular! A reasoned 3rd party inspection can only be good. Personally, I'm having some doubts about the motivations of some of the comments on the HF thread
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Feb 9, 2018 17:09:27 GMT
Both Takstars arrived.
Now I only need to free up time, measure and write something.
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Post by jello on Feb 10, 2018 15:26:43 GMT
Well from initial PM's with Frans this is going to be interesting....
Frans will likely add more detail in time but although both of my pairs are cosmetically identical externally there are noticeable differences between the pairs once you get under the hood so to speak and the anti-counterfeit code on the box for the first pair is not recognised by Takstar's website, just spits out a message to phone them.
May simply be a driver revision or could be counterfeit. No way to tell and as the pair has now been opened up I'm not going to pursue it.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Feb 10, 2018 15:47:58 GMT
The fake ones have a different cable (1.8m vs 2.2m) and have different connectors . The pads differ as well even though at a first glance they look exactly the same. Different material 'mounting rings' is used and the memory foam reacts different, which is only visible at direct comparison. Also when the pads are removed the differences in the drivers are quite visible.
The fake ones have a sharper 'edge' to the treble and are less 'detailed' and are not as 'smooth' in the treble. Bass and mid levels and overall 'looks' are very much the same though, in that sense a reasonable knock-off. Who would have thought that some folks want to make knock-off's from relatively cheap headphones and go to the effort of making them have a similarish tonal balance.
All will be revealed on the website when measurements are done.
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Post by jello on Feb 10, 2018 16:07:52 GMT
Thanks Frans!
It was the sharpness that I found problematic on a lot of recordings whereas with others it actually sounded quite pleasant and fairly detailed (although did ponder earlier if it might be 'fake' detail induced by elevation).
I didn't find the bass too bad on that pair. Less than on the black pair but nowehere near as bass deficient as some owners have described theirs.
I am still surprised about they might be fakes though because they even came with the fancy case.
The difference in cables can be explained I think. As some unknown point in time Takstar changed both the cable and the box art. White box/ 2.2m cable = old 'version'. Black box w/ 1.6m or 1.8m cable iirc = new 'version'. Comments attributed to Takstar (via Takstar Audio Store on AE) suggest that no other changes were made, aside from a reduction in cable length.
Have stuck up a warning up on head-fi to raise awareness that there may be knock offs doing the rounds. No harm in people checking their codes to be on the safe side esp. if they have some concerns.
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Post by solderdude on Feb 10, 2018 16:17:42 GMT
The bass deficiency some experience may be a seal problem. A slight breach (glasses for instance) totally destroys the bass levels. Evidence of this will be on the website article as well.
On the website they still say the cable is 2.2m
The strange part is that there are (acc. to Takstar) possible fakes around and 'old' and new versions with the most obvious difference being cable length and box only ?
In any case they differ in sound.
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Post by Mr Trev on Feb 10, 2018 17:17:01 GMT
Got to say I was a bit surprised to hear one was a fake. I wouldn't think Takstar had to market cloat to even be considered worth faking - then again there were fake Fiio E6s floating around when Fiio was still pretty much in their infancy. Any indication as to where the fake came from - it would amuse me to no end if it turned out the fake was from the "official" Takstar store
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Post by jello on Feb 10, 2018 18:02:01 GMT
Well I wish I hadn't bothered posting anything on head-fi.
Thought I made a reasonably level headed post where I raised the possibility that there might be fakes doing the rounds and explained the reasons why. Suggested that to be on the safe side it would be an idea if folk check the codes on their boxes against the Takstar website if concerned.
Whilst I could have kept mum (no doubt someone would have complained if I had and a problem subsequently came to light) I thought it more prudent to say something, as much as that one man thread does my tits in. Figured if folk checked (30 second job) then it might give a clearer indication of whether there is an issue here or not. If they did and things checked out then all good. No harm, no foul as the saying goes and have no agenda so would prefer there NOT to be a problem with counterfeits.
But of course within minutes the OP jumped on my post in a fairly blunt and dismissive fashion and accused me of scaremongering. I've bitten my tongue with regards a lot of the **** that has been posted of late but thiis time bit back. Don't feel particularly good about having done so but water under the bridge now. Maybe I should have just said nice things about the P82? But I'm not 12 so don't feel the need to be one of the gang just to fit in.
Well if nothing else it's reminded me why I took a sabbatical from the place and this time I think I'll make it a permanent thing.
Will let Frans' measurements and findings on the 'good' pair speak for themselves. I'm past caring but do look forward to reading Fran's write up whether good, bad or indifferent.
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Post by Mr Trev on Feb 10, 2018 18:51:26 GMT
I finished reading the HF thread. I completely get your point.
I think it was a great PSA (public service announcement) to bring up the possibility of counterfeits, especially with the code failing. The OP's reaction really does make me question the validity of their opinions even more now than I did before. Yes it is a little surprising that Takstar would be a target for counterfeits, but that seems to be a strong cottage industry in China and I doubt anybody is immune anymore (the Fiio E6 again, the thing was super cheap yet there was still fakes)
I didn't feel your response was over the top by any means. Heck, I'm surprised you didn't just flat out accuse him of being a shill for the AE store or something (many others would have). Don't lose any sleep over it.
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Post by solderdude on Feb 10, 2018 22:57:39 GMT
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Post by jello on Feb 10, 2018 23:46:28 GMT
That was quick work Frans! Thanks so much for taking the time to measure these and for the very detailed and well presented analysis. Things certainly took an interesting turn!
Particularly interesting was the two sets of measurements. I'd never have expected the silver pair would have measurably more bass and even in direct comparison (via Mojo's two headphone outs) the black pair was clearly bassier to my ears. I don't wear glasses when using headphones but can only assume it was a seal issue with the silver pair for whatever reason. Maybe the foam density? Also found that pair to sound marginally quieter which I guess can be attributed to the difference in impedance between the pair.
I have referred to this headphone as a good sounding portable a few times and that was intentional. In some ways that might seem like a backhanded compliment (I don't really rate portables) as I wouldn't even consider using them for home listening. However, I do think the well extended bass and overall tonality of the P82 is really rather enjoyable even if it lacks some technical ability. For me this headphone works best when plugged into my phone or laptop for more casual music listening, movies (very immersive) etc. Also very good for gaming and a step up from your average gaming headset (invariable poor).
Not perfect by any means but for the money I think the P82 is hard to fault. Pleasing sound, good comfort, decent materials etc. But expectations should be kept realistic.
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