jello
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Post by jello on Mar 20, 2016 14:20:41 GMT
The crossfeed feature on the Phonitor does seem to be something owners like, so perhaps the implementation is better than a software based solution.
When you look at the difference in price between the Phonitor and the Mini you do have to wonder just how much of that is paying for those extra bells & whistles. Some or many of which you'd probably never use.
Can't say I wouldn't like to try one though.
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oldson
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Post by oldson on Mar 20, 2016 17:05:44 GMT
without the bells and whistles , would a Polaris be better though? decisions decisions
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 20, 2016 17:28:22 GMT
That's a tough one. I don't know.
Crossfeed does cut the amounts of bass that you hear. Some units have a bass boost in order to compensate. The Mieir unit did. It was variable boost as well as variable crossfeed. The most useful thing to have would be a filter, mieir crossfeed and Polaris. Now that would be nice.
I'm not sure how good the Phonitor amp is. Chances are it's very good though.
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oldson
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Post by oldson on Mar 28, 2016 18:28:30 GMT
i have a power output question. this amp specifies..... 2x 1 W (+30 dBu) at 1 kHz and 600 Ω connected impedance 2x 2 W (+30 dBu) at 1 kHz and 300 Ω connected impedance
so what would you expect into 50 ohm? is this just dependent on ohms law or are there other factors
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howie
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Post by howie on Mar 28, 2016 19:37:10 GMT
Hope it doesn't follow Ohm's Law- I mean, who needs max 12W and 60W into 50 and 10 Ohm headphones, respectively? That seems gross. PS Please could someone check my maths- thanks.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Mar 28, 2016 21:58:14 GMT
Max. Output Power (at +30 dBu at 1 kHz)
2 x 1 W at 600 Ohm impedance 2 x 2 W at 300 Ohm impedance 2x 3.7 W at 120 Ohm impedance 2x 2.9 W at 47 Ohm impedance 2x 2.7 W at 32 Ohm impedance
The reason for this is that the amplifier works on a high voltage rail and has a current limiter as well.
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howie
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Post by howie on Mar 29, 2016 6:07:45 GMT
Is there a risk of damage to the headphone at these sort of levels, Frans?
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Mar 29, 2016 19:17:40 GMT
Some headphones have a low power rating of 50mW to 200mW. As long as you have the headphones on your head and don't play earshatteringly loud they'll be O.K. There is a small risk of accidentally severly overloading headphones that are lying on a desk and when the amp is accidentally turned up to full volume for instance. For IEM's it may not be the best idea to connect these though. Some extra headroom (power) won't hurt. The power rating of most headphones is continuous so if a headphone is rated 100mW for instance it can easily handle peaks of 1W in music signals. Most headphones will reach over 120dB SPL by then so most won't tolerate these levels for long. The difference in SPL that can be reached aren't as big as the the power ratings suggest though. 2 x 1 W at 600 Ohm for Phonitor vs 0.4W for Polaris: the Phonitor is 4dB louder (more headroom) than Polaris 2 x 2 W at 300 Ohm for Phonitor vs 0.85W for Polaris: the Phonitor is 3.7dB louder (more headroom) than Polaris 2x 3.7 W at 120 Ohm for Phonitor vs 2.1W for Polaris: the Phonitor is 2.5dB louder (more headroom) than Polaris 2x 2.9 W at 47 Ohm for Phonitor vs 2.1W for Polaris: the Phonitor is 1.4dB louder (more headroom) than Polaris 2x 2.7 W at 32 Ohm for Phonitor vs 1.3W for Polaris: the Phonitor is 3.2dB louder (more headroom) than Polaris Of course the tunable crossfeed is a nice feature to have (don't use crossfeed myself). I have a variable crossfeed myself but the problem is that not all music benefits from crossfeed and some albums need less than other albums. The Phonitors are great looking though. If they weren't priced that high I might have fancied one myself. I really liked the old Phonitor: The newer version isn't bad either
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 29, 2016 19:45:50 GMT
They do look a bit tastey!!
I guess the original intention was to drive 600 ohmers and try to produce a speaker like sound on headphones. Being able to alter the perceived angle of the speakers electrically and also applying variable amounts of crossfeed should give some kind of soundstage, plus the power that it offers for proper headroom. Very nice.
I also find crossfeed quite variable. It works well with some recordings and on others, it can make things worse. The Ifi crossfeed works quite nicely; especially with closed headphones.
This just gives a bit more option with regards to trying to get a decent soundstage which is something I can't form that easily in a headphone myself. Left/right in head placing (stereo) is fine but for me, headphones don't produce enough clues about back and forward stage, let alone up and down. I was listening to Roger Walters and at the point where planes come flying over, it only sounds high up because tou know that it's an airplane, not really because the aural clues are there. On speakers, it seems more apparent.
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howie
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Post by howie on Mar 29, 2016 20:45:47 GMT
Frans, thanks for that detailed reply. Ian and I have discussed on a different thread how unrealistic some recordings can sound-like a solo piano or string quartet stretching across the whole stage, or a Lieder recital where the singer and piano are at opposite ends of the stage. I might give the cheaper mini version a shot if I can find one I can return if not suitable.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Mar 29, 2016 21:25:25 GMT
The 3D effect on the ifi is not crossfeed, more like the opposite of crossfeed.
The 3D effect expands the stereo image where crossfeed narrows it (everything becomes more 'mono')
At least that's what I get from ifi. It looks like the 3D effect differs between line-out (which probably expands the stereo image ?) versus the headphone out (which possibly narrows the soundstage more like crossfeed)
Do these different outputs indeed react differently ?
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 29, 2016 21:51:12 GMT
The Ifi one is a bit strange sometimes, but effective on other occasions. It does push stuff outwards rather than pull everything in. It's not always so good with sibilants, since it can separate the frequencies within a sound and place them in different places. So someone could be talking mid right, but the consonants come from extreme right while the body of sound is further in. It can separate sounds in an unnatural way.
I have no idea how it's working but I just lump it in as crossfeed!! The Mieir unit brought everything in towards the centre.
I think both outputs work the same Frans. The headphone also pushes sounds out. I think different amounts on lineout.
Headphones do become more spacious, but it has its faults, depending on the recording.
Although the Mieir unit pulled sounds in, it did make headphones sound more 'open'. I found it more beneficial on closed headphones as well.
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jello
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Post by jello on Mar 29, 2016 23:11:45 GMT
This isn't really a glowing review for the Phonitor Mini: headfonics.com/2015/07/the-phonitor-mini-by-spl/2/As you mentioned earlier Ian crossfeed seems to reduce bass quantity and the Mini appears to suffer accordingly with it enabled. No built in bass boost to compensate either it seems.
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oldson
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Post by oldson on Mar 30, 2016 17:20:08 GMT
i may give something like this a try... mfspdesigns VCF1 crossfeed filter 1
if i dont buy a phonitor, that is.
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oldson
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Post by oldson on Mar 31, 2016 19:12:24 GMT
Frans, thanks for that detailed reply. Ian and I have discussed on a different thread how unrealistic some recordings can sound-like a solo piano or string quartet stretching across the whole stage, or a Lieder recital where the singer and piano are at opposite ends of the stage. I might give the cheaper mini version a shot if I can find one I can return if not suitable. try scan.co.uk i think they have good returns policy and good price too.
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