Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 1, 2016 18:23:34 GMT
The 3D effect on the ifi is not crossfeed, more like the opposite of crossfeed. The 3D effect expands the stereo image where crossfeed narrows it (everything becomes more 'mono') At least that's what I get from ifi. It looks like the 3D effect differs between line-out (which probably expands the stereo image ?) versus the headphone out (which possibly narrows the soundstage more like crossfeed) Do these different outputs indeed react differently ? I found today that the Ifi 3d effect does some quite different things with the sound. An extreme right or left sound is added to the other ear, so it in effect, becomes less extreme and isn't stuck in one ear, just like a not,al crossfeed. Here's the curious bit .... A sound that was mid way between centre and right went further OUT which is very unlike crossfeed. So it seems that the 3d effect on the idsd and Nano is doing something different, depending on the stereo placement of sounds. What I don't get is why in one case the sound is brought in towards the centre and in another, taken further out. |
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oldson
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Post by oldson on Apr 1, 2016 19:11:53 GMT
Ian dont you see it as your duty as admin to take a punt on a phonitor and report back? shall i look for a dealer in norwich?  |
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 2, 2016 15:57:21 GMT
I'd certainly like the big one. It looks pretty good to me ...... I'm in Norwich on Monday ....... Would the wife notice it in the boot of the car?   |
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oldson
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Post by oldson on Apr 2, 2016 16:47:13 GMT
go on , take a chance.
will it fit in with the spare wheel?
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 2, 2016 18:46:28 GMT
Fit it in the car dash and she might think it's the speedo!!
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oldson
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Post by oldson on May 18, 2016 17:19:59 GMT
Frans
i have a quick question regarding the power of the phonitor amp that you posted......
"2 x 1 W at 600 Ohm for Phonitor vs 0.4W for Polaris: the Phonitor is 4dB louder (more headroom) than Polaris
2 x 2 W at 300 Ohm for Phonitor vs 0.85W for Polaris: the Phonitor is 3.7dB louder (more headroom) than Polaris
2x 3.7 W at 120 Ohm for Phonitor vs 2.1W for Polaris: the Phonitor is 2.5dB louder (more headroom) than Polaris
2x 2.9 W at 47 Ohm for Phonitor vs 2.1W for Polaris: the Phonitor is 1.4dB louder (more headroom) than Polaris
2x 2.7 W at 32 Ohm for Phonitor vs 1.3W for Polaris: the Phonitor is 3.2dB louder (more headroom) than Polaris"
can you just please clarify that these specs are for phonitor 2 and not the original?
reason i ask is i am still considering a used original or phonitor mini. but i have read that the original is tailored towards high imp phones, whereas the "2" and mini are better suited across the imp range.
of course my research could be wrong (again!!)
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on May 18, 2016 20:34:11 GMT
Those specs are from the Phonitor 2
Phonitor 2:
2 x 1 W at 600 Ohm impedance
2 x 2 W at 300 Ohm impedance
2x 3.7 W at 120 Ohm impedance
2x 2.9 W at 47 Ohm impedance
2x 2.7 W at 32 Ohm impedance
Phonitor:
1.7W @ 600 Ohms impedance
0.36 W @ 30 Ohms impedance
Phonitor mini:
2x 1W at 600 Ohm impedance
2x 2W at 300 Ohm impedance
So it looks like the original Phonitor is better suited for high impedance headphones than it is for low inpedance.
That is based on the little info I could find.
The Phonitor mini is not specified for low impedance headphones, that doesn't mean it can't drive them properly.
Just no data available so cannot tell.
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oldson
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Post by oldson on May 20, 2016 17:35:04 GMT
it would be nice if there was an SPL crossfeed plug-in available.
one that also has the angle and centre adjustments.
but i guess it would not be in their interests to do it.
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oldson
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Post by oldson on May 20, 2016 17:41:36 GMT
just done a bit of searching on crossfeeds and found this...... www.112db.com/redline/monitor/you guys that know about this kind of thing, any opinions? i know nout about this kind of thing. would this vst install and work on jriver? |
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on May 21, 2016 19:20:51 GMT
You know Simon, it looks as though you are looking for something that would change my views on headphone listening. One thing that doesn't work for me on headphones (apart from proper bass reproduction on most) is imaging.
I get middle and extreme left/right, but depth is a problem for me and my ears unless a big acoustic is planted onto the sound to make it painfully obvious.
I wonder if electronics is the answer to this actually. I've always hoped that we'd have been offered the choice of binaural or stereo when buying recordings. I'd go binaural straight away. That works for me, but since it isn't going to happen, anything that artificially helps the illusion would improve headphones a lot for me.
When people describe imaging, personally, I have trouble believing them since the recordings are mixed in stereo which isn't natural to our ears when they're enclosed so hearing depth information can only rely on acoustic info in the way that sounds might reflect off walls.
The other problem is that crossfeeds don't always work well and some are plain awful. Ideally, some kind of processing could perhaps improve the image but I'm not sure if such a complex processing device works or if it exists.
I guess a compromise is to have some kind of 'tuning' in order to optimise image would be best with stereo recordings.
On good headphones, I get an amazing central image but the rest for me is kind of limited to left and right information.
Good bass and imaging would bring it alove for me I think.
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Post by hifidez on May 22, 2016 7:04:34 GMT
Still on the topic of 'crossfeed' I'm looking at an inexpensive piece of software by Xivero and called HPEX. Looks like fun. Their other products seem worth a look too. HFEX has a trial mode. The settings are variable so you can adjust the amount of effect to suit your own taste. www.xivero.com/hpex/Just installed HPEX. Two controls, 'depth' and 'width' both can be set from 0 to 100%. Width control is self explanitory and the default 75% setting seems to work well. Depth is more intriguing and effects can be subtle. This is the 'lever' for moving the in-the-head images forwards. Aagin, the default is 75% . There is an on/off toggle for on-the-fly comparisons. XPEX also has a file conversion facility which means that you could store 'XPEX'ed versions of files alonside the originals for those recordings you think benefit from the processing. File formats for saved conversions are WAV, FLAC, AIFF. Live playback handles .dsf too. |
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on May 22, 2016 7:53:11 GMT
Derek, that looks interesting. I might give that a go myself, mainly because you can save the files ready for a dap and you're not stuck to the computer.
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Post by hifidez on May 22, 2016 8:43:01 GMT
Yes, my thoughts exactly. Using a test track for channel indent. i.e. human voice at full left, right & centre, it's apparent that at any setting within the HFEX s'ware there's significant reverb added; not apparent so much on music though, and quite pleasant.
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oldson
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Post by oldson on May 22, 2016 16:05:34 GMT
You know Simon, it looks as though you are looking for something that would change my views on headphone listening. One thing that doesn't work for me on headphones (apart from proper bass reproduction on most) is imaging. I get middle and extreme left/right, but depth is a problem for me and my ears unless a big acoustic is planted onto the sound to make it painfully obvious. I wonder if electronics is the answer to this actually. I've always hoped that we'd have been offered the choice of binaural or stereo when buying recordings. I'd go binaural straight away. That works for me, but since it isn't going to happen, anything that artificially helps the illusion would improve headphones a lot for me. When people describe imaging, personally, I have trouble believing them since the recordings are mixed in stereo which isn't natural to our ears when they're enclosed so hearing depth information can only rely on acoustic info in the way that sounds might reflect off walls. The other problem is that crossfeeds don't always work well and some are plain awful. Ideally, some kind of processing could perhaps improve the image but I'm not sure if such a complex processing device works or if it exists. I guess a compromise is to have some kind of 'tuning' in order to optimise image would be best with stereo recordings. On good headphones, I get an amazing central image but the rest for me is kind of limited to left and right information. Good bass and imaging would bring it alove for me I think. i think what you are saying is i'm "p1ssing in the wind" ? the crossfeed of the phonitor 2 is intriguing me, but not sure if i want to chuck £1100 at it to find out. the plug-in i posted a link to has similar adjustments and is an awful lot cheaper, not sure if it will work on jriver though. i may download the trial and give it a go. |
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on May 22, 2016 17:50:00 GMT
I don't think you're wasting your time, Simon.
What I'm trying to say is that there hasn't really been enough research into getting headphone sound as good or close to speakers. The way that we listen is unnatural on a headphone.... almost like having one ear on one side of a concert hall and the other ear on the other side. Kind of like having a speaker at 180 degrees; although that would be better than headphones because you get a 'natural' crossfeed.
Binaural sounds good to me but wasn't adopted which is a pity.
So really, crossfeed is a compromise with some being better implemented than others. One of the nicer ones was the Mieir unit because you could adjust amount of crossfeed and bass boost to compensate for the effect of losing bass when listening via crossfeed.
What you're doing is perfectly reasonable for someone who actually listens to soundstage and perhaps, subconsciously, you're trying to get it to sound more speaker like.
I feel the same way about headphones, plus the fact that most don't do bass very well in all honesty.
Frans has nailed the bass issue with his Kameleon. The extreme stereo stuff and imaging is a whole new ball game. Way more technical and very difficult to do well, I think.
Maybe the perfect amp has loads of power for headroom, supply proper, eq'd bass and has adjustable crossfeed?
It doesn't really exist, but the Phoniter does look like it's a serious attempt to get around the imaging problem on headphones. I really don't get imaging properly and I do wonder whether people mix up imaging with left/right stereo really. I certainly don't get a hologram and if anything, I think I hear things backwards, going back into my head, not forwards and out.
So you're not wasting your time, Simon. I think you're looking for what every serious listener would naturally want from a headphone.
Maybe my answer is an hd800 with a filter? Somehow, I doubt it though!!!
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