Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 14, 2013 21:15:55 GMT
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Post by micmacmo on Apr 17, 2013 15:51:10 GMT
Here's a photo of my O2/ODAC build in the wild. I purchased the kit from Audio Poutine here in Canada. It was my first build and what got me started on DIY audio. (The eyeglasses are for scale only and sold separately. They're also good for reading fine print and soldering tiny components. Available at fine Costco stores everywhere.) My appraisal of the O2 is pretty much in line with Solderdude's. The bass is tight and extended with plenty of impact. It definitely isn't thin, but, for folks with a preference for tubes, it will sound a tad dry at first. With the O2 set to no gain (i.e., no resistors in the low-gain socket), it easily drives my modded T50RP. And my K701 have never sounded better. It is dead quiet. I can't tell the difference when the amp is powered up or off (when music isn't playing, of course). The build is straightforward and even confidence building for a neophyte like me. The documentation on NWAvGuy's blog is extensive and really walks the builder through the process, if he or she is willing to spend the time reading it. One caveat: have a look at the photo and you can see how cluttered the front panel is. Cables everywhere, plus all the buttons and knobs. But you'll also notice that it sits unobtrusively on one corner of my very messy desk and even functions as an eyeglass stand. Oh, two caveats. Audio Poutine pointed out that the two batteries rely on one charging circuit. Over time, this can lead to the two batteries not being symmetrically charged. After a year and a few months, the batteries in my amp no longer worked well (a loud buzzing when the amp was unplugged from the AC adapter and a right/left channel imbalance that even my ears could hear when plugged in). I just replaced them (the batteries. Not my ears.).
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 17, 2013 16:01:59 GMT
I know we work as a close team, but I wrote the review!! It's subjective whereas Frans would veer more to the measurements in his assessment of it. I did wonder about the charging myself and left the comment at the end about it.... time will tell. JDS Labs are saying that it's safe to charge whenever, and even ok to leave it on charge. I'm not sure. Was I right about the batteries - the board has to come out in order to change them? Here's the one I have at the moment: I only have it for two weeks before I need to decide whether I want one of my own. Then whether I get it made or actually try to put one together myself with better sockets.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Apr 17, 2013 18:20:19 GMT
The batteries and the gain that must be set correctly are the biggest downsides of the design.
It appears as though Oliver has changed the charging circuit, at least that's what he claims. It is something that is needed I reckon.
Indeed charging batteries in series could be a problem if discharging is asymmetrical OR too deep. The protection circuit in the O2 should handle the deep discharge problem (like the Zigis has) by switching itself off. Haven't looked at the circuit closely though.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 17, 2013 18:31:02 GMT
Frans would veer more to the measurements in his assessment of it.See, I told you!! Oliver also has a three week wait time for them. You can get one from USA quicker than that!! The charging alteration he's made is just to stop the charge when batteries are full. He didn't reply to an email enquiry I put through to him two or three weeks ago actually, so I'm afraid, if I got one, it'll be USA because it's quicker!! I must admit, the battery thing is a bit strange too. The gain doesn't seem to be a problem with an Ipod. I don't understand why the instructions re charging are so vague. 8 hours to full charge and no longer than 24 hours, although it's safe to leave plugged in? Very wishy washy. I don't like that. I'm running to flat at the moment with the T40 so it has something meaty to drive. So far, it's done 5 hours easily. It's supposed to give 10 - 11 hours and then I'll charge for 24 (ish) hours, I guess. Maybe it's cheaper and better to get a supply for the Zigis? I get noise on the plug so it would be better to get something that holds 3 rechargeable batteries to power it with. (Like Mick has done)
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Post by micmacmo on Apr 17, 2013 19:02:17 GMT
Sorry for misidentifying Frans as the author, Ian. Nice writeup.
For the cost, the O2 is a darn nice amp. It is "neutral" to my ears, with all the good and bad that that implies. I find myself switching between the Project Sunrise II and the O2 regularly. And, if you don't mind my subjectivity and ambiguity, the PS II just sounds more intimate.
Because this is a DIY forum and there are probably other mid-fi enthusiasts like myself onboard, I'll say that if the O2 were the only amp I owned, I think I'd be perfectly happy.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Apr 17, 2013 19:36:38 GMT
Maybe it's cheaper and better to get a supply for the Zigis? I get noise on the plug so it would be better to get something that holds 3 rechargeable batteries to power it with. (Like Mick has done) The Zigis won't be able to pump a lot of power (40mW) into the T40, regardless of the power supply voltage as the output power is limited by the maximum current the used opamp can deliver. The O2 can deliver 4x as much current in low impedances. This also means 4 times higher output voltage so.... 16x more POWERRRRR ! (600mW) That's 12dB louder, so slightly more than twice as loud.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 17, 2013 19:43:54 GMT
It's not a problem, Mo!! I didn't put my name on it in any case and it's in Fran's amp section. That's what I meant by 'working closely together' to make the forum informative and friendly at the same time I guess. Funnily enough, Frans looks at the way things are put together and analyses how it works in a similar way that I listen to music by pulling it apart to see how it's constructed!! However, I have no option really but to review as me in a subjective kind of way, which I know some don't like. I try to be as honest as possible. I have the Horizon amp which I also love a great deal. It's an amp with a musical 'character' which is very enjoyable. However, Frans may describe it as an amp with a tube, so it has a set of 'harmonics' imposed on top of the sound which creates what I'm describing - and also, the fact that some really don't like that effect!!! Nevertheless, to my ears, it's the best open frame type amp around. I've tried the Bravo, Indeed, the whatever ....... They all fry themselves into an early grave. I cooked every one of them. The Horizon keeps going and sounds great. For me, the 02 is an option to use with the T40 that Frans modded for me. It needs quite a kick to drive it properly on big peaks and the O2 does that particularly well for a portable. So, for me, it means the T40 can be taken away from home and used nicely rather than compromise on the headphone because of the amp's lack of real driving power. It is pretty neutral, I'd say. I can't really say it's fat in the bass or piercing in the treble. It seems very well balanced and as you say, not a bad price when you compare it with another one I have, the Neco. Is low power on yours with the switch 'out'. It is better imo on low power and I have managed to find a pooint where the amp just begins to go into clipping on high power and switching to low resolves it. However, I'm doing a battery run at the moment, so it could be starting to lose it's 'edge'. Coming up to virtually 7 hours now.
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Post by micmacmo on Apr 17, 2013 20:35:33 GMT
Yup, with the button in the out position is low gain for me. Depending on how it was constructed, you can open up the housing and swap out the resistors that dictate the actual gain. I pulled the resistor entirely from the low-gain socket so the gain is 1:1, or so i've been told.
BTW, you do need to open the case and pull the board to replace the batteries. But it's a three minute job. Just unscrew the four screws on the front panel and pull the panel out with the board still attached. No need to remove the volume knob or button covers. (The panel is secured to the board via a nut that holds the volume pot to the panel.)
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 17, 2013 20:54:36 GMT
BTW, you do need to open the case and pull the board to replace the batteries. But it's a three minute job. Just unscrew the four screws on the front panel and pull the panel out with the board still attached. No need to remove the volume knob or button covers. (The panel is secured to the board via a nut that holds the volume pot to the panel.) OK. Thanks for that. I got the impression that it was a back end job!! That makes it easier then. I have to admit, I'm tempted to get one of my own. It does work really quite well with the T40. I've done over 7 hours on battery now and it's still fine with it.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 18, 2013 18:23:46 GMT
Sorry Frans, I hadn't seen your post. OK, so I guess it's not really worth the bother with the Zigis then.
The O2 drives the T50 pretty well, although I am aware that it is near peak input on high power so that there is a real chance of distortion with these amps. It's just touching the edge of distortion on loud recordings.
The sound is slightly weightier than the Neco. It definitely 'sounds' bigger than it is.
I've done a timer on it (new batteries so not fully formed probably) and it's given 9 hours on a charge at full power, loud into a T40.
Also, while charging, it's still totally silent on headphone so you can use it just as easily plugged in. No problems with mains noise.
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Post by imagemaker18 on Jun 1, 2013 3:18:40 GMT
My O2 from JDS arrived today, and I had a chance to listen with three different headphones: First, the bad news : I started off with my modded Fostex T50 with Frans' active filter, and to my ears the O2 indeed, while quite clean and transparent, sounded dry, clinical, and lacking in mid-frequencies and presence. The bass, while there, I also found lacking. I couldn't help but miss my Project Sunrise with its full sound stage, realistic bass, and almost palpable three-dimensionality! Next was my HE-500 with Frans' active filter. Pretty similar results as above: to my ears too thin, lacking in musicality, smaller sound stage, and reduced bass presence. I then hooked up my heavily modded and damped Denon 2000 with 5000 mahogany cups, and the O2 truly brought them to life! . A perfect match! I never before heard my Denon 2000 sound that good. It was all there! Lows, mids, well balanced highs, and a wonderfully wide sound stage. I am truly amazed at the synergy! While initially being disappointed with the O2's performance with the first two excellent HPs, I now believe that it was worth buying it for that reason alone! So, the good news is that the O2 does have a place in my arsenal. While it does have more power and headroom than my portable Neco, and as a portable (transportable) it will make a better choice for me, and it sounds fantastic wirh my modded Denon HPs, it does not have anywhere near the power and headroom or the sonority of my Project Sunrise! The latter, equipped with my favorite ECC88 Telefunken tube, to my ears, remains unchallenged. Of course, the above are initial SUBJECTIVE impressions of the OBJECTIVE2, and after some burning in, the latter may change, or my ears may become more accepting and forgiving (although, I don't expect by much), this may be subject to change (with notice). Cheers! Israel
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jun 1, 2013 6:49:36 GMT
How strange, Israel. I'll compare mine to the Horizon today. I never noticed a lack of bass.
I can't remember whether the Sunrise is configurable but I wonder whether you have the output impedance set at 120? The O2 is very low.
I did read somewhere else that someone found it a bit thin in the mids and they also mentioned the bass.
Since you find it ok with certain headphones and not others, it instantly had me thinking about the output impedance since some people seem more sensitive to this than others.
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Post by imagemaker18 on Jun 1, 2013 9:31:30 GMT
How strange, Israel. I'll compare mine to the Horizon today. I never noticed a lack of bass. I can't remember whether the Sunrise is configurable but I wonder whether you have the output impedance set at 120? The O2 is very low. The Sunrise IS configurable with jumpers. There are 2 settings: 10 Ohm and 68 Ohm. On the very rare occassiion that I would use my K701s, which was a year ago, I would change the output resistance setting to 68 Ohm plus adding an inline output resistor of 52 Ohm for a total of 120 Ohms. I am, however, amazed at how great it sounds with my modded Denons with mahogany cups, which I take along when I have a long session at the cancer center. With the O2, they sound incredible! No thinness, a nice musical sound, lows, mids, highs, and presence with a full expanded sound stage - almost as good as my HE-500 with Frans' filter! IMHO, it is more a matter of synergy, or to put it a little more crudely and cynically, a matching or a ying/yang of compensations - a kind of give and take of deficiencies - one makes up for what the other lacks, and vice versa! A marriage of a sort, not necessarily based on love, but perhaps a symbiosis! ;D. But it works! Cheers! Israel
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Post by imagemaker18 on Jun 2, 2013 0:18:01 GMT
How strange, Israel. I'll compare mine to the Horizon today. I never noticed a lack of bass. I forgot to mention that, as you may recall, I have both the Horizon, and the Project Sunrise, and was using the Horizon predominantly until I got the Fostex T50 and T40. I then switched back to my Project Sunrise, because at 50 Ohms impedance, it puts out a lot more power compared to the Horizon, which has other fine attributes. You probably recall Frans' post about the above two amps, which includes measurements that bear this out. I do concede, however that the O2 is the most powerful transportable amp that I have come across, and am happy to have it. I am also hoping that after some burn-in time it may improve, or perhaps, some OpAmp rolling may do it. John Seaber, the JDS CEO, advised me against it. But, he doesn't have my peculiar ears, and bases his statement on premises that are not necessarily wrong, however different than mine. Cheers! Israel
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