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Post by hifidez on Jul 24, 2017 8:42:19 GMT
I've ordered one of these: www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_u_phoria_umc204hd.htmI have been using an M-Audio Audiophile 24-96 PCI-e sound card for years, but recent updates to Windows 10 have now rendered it close to useless. It's no longer supprted by M-Audio so no proper driver is available. Didn't want to spend too much on a replacement and came across this Behringer. I wanted something that would enable me to digitise and copy the odd LP to the PC to a high standard as well as sounding better, on playback, than the PC's on-board system. Can use it instead of my old Alesis mixer for home recoring as well. And all that functionality from a USB-powered device. Furthermore, as it is a USB gadget I can swap it between desktop pc and laptop. Specifications look good. Looking forward to seeing how it drives my various 'phones too.
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Post by hifidez on Jul 24, 2017 14:10:11 GMT
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Post by hifidez on Jul 26, 2017 16:28:15 GMT
Arrived just now (Wednesday 26th) just 3 days after ordering on the Sunday 23rd. Will have a play tomorrow. Looks good though. Solid and well made. Great service from Thomann.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jul 26, 2017 17:20:33 GMT
Thomann are very good. I had four congas sent over from them which I thought might be a problem. Arrived at lightening speed.
That looks almost industrial in the way that it's built, Derek.
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Post by hifidez on Jul 27, 2017 8:55:18 GMT
First play... Just tested it out as a simple USB DAC / headphone amp. Using the laptop with both Foobar, with some favourite tracks, and with the current BBC R3 full-res FLAC 24/48 streaming service, the sound is pretty darned good. I accept that, not knowing the output impedance of the headphone amp stage, my low-ish impedance Oppo PM-3s may not be a perfect match, but, hey, it all sounded good to me. Instrumental harmonics/overtones seemed nicely presented with piano being particularly satisfying.
I find it hard to discriminate between amps (YMMV!) when using headphones but everything seemed to be 'in the right place'. 'Sorrow' from PULSE is my go-to test track for bass extension. I heard a nice solid bass synth note and audience whistles, claps and shouts were spacious and life-like. Diana Krall's 'Frim Fram Sauce' and 'Boulevard of Broken Dreams' in 24/96 were very entertaining. Gerg Porter, too, sang his 'Water Under Bridges' just for me, it seemed. That song really gets me.
A quick test of the line inputs showed plenty of headroom - but I was struggling with a dodgy RCA to 1/4" jack adaptor so that'll need replacing. Amazon Prime is my best buddy.
When I've got some time to myself I'll test out the mic inputs; many reviews say how good these sound.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jul 27, 2017 9:20:15 GMT
Does it double as a mic preamp as well Derek? If it does, I'd be interested in what kind of noise levels you're getting.
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Post by hifidez on Jul 27, 2017 9:31:42 GMT
Yes it certainly does. Even supplies a 48V DC for condenser mics - how cool is that? And all from a USB-powered device. All I have seen so far is that with nothing connected and the gain set to full there's little noise. User reviews report very little noise.
So far, for home recordings, I have used my Alesis mixer (USB 1.0 in/out facility & limited to 24.48) and I had to be very careful to keep the hiss at useful levels. I think the Behringer will be a doddle.
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Post by drumdrym on Jul 27, 2017 21:04:33 GMT
You can save about a fiver here.............. linkDelivery free based in Colchester, Essex Might buy the 202 without the Midi I/O
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Post by hifidez on Jul 28, 2017 6:57:46 GMT
I saw, by shopping around, I could save a bit but I've used Thomann before and I felt more comfortable dealing with them. I knew they'd deliver promptly.
I seriously considered the 202 as I don't need MIDI. But the 204 has RCA socket outputs which is just a tad more convenient than just having the 1/4" jack sockets the 202 offers. That's the only reason I went for the more expensive option.
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Post by hifidez on Jul 30, 2017 7:13:30 GMT
Have had more time to test this out. Mic preamps are VERY quiet. I'll organise a screen shot showing one channel with input gain set to about half way, a typical setting for vocal recording with a dynamic microphone, and the other channel unused. That should give a reasonable idea of noise levels.
Used as a simple DAC/headphone amp I continue to be amazed. I'm neither expecting nor hoping that it's a good performer because I only need this item to be a useably good sound card for digitising vinyl or functional music playback in the 'office'. So I'm never switching this on with any overly hopeful expectations; I just plug in my 'phones with a near disregard for its sound quaity. And then I'm surprised. Caught off-guard.
It's firstly the bass which is so solid, so weighty, so purposeful. And then the overall musicality of the thing. Makes you want to carry on listening. I've been flicking over to the current hi-fi FLAC Radio 3 streaming brodcasts and enjoying it a lot.
My go-to route for listening on 'phones is my DacMagic XS. But, in spite of the Behringer being much, much larger (and therefore more cumbersome) it seems worth the bother. For a competent 24/192 DAC/Headphone amp, at 85 Euro is a steal. Throw in the mic pre-amps and ADC section as well. What's not to like? I suppose what's not to like is the fact that the 'lowly' Cirrus Logic chips* get in the way of any Sabre-rattling.
* I believe it uses 2x Cirrus Logic CS4272-CZZ
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jul 30, 2017 8:56:40 GMT
Mic noise is always a problem tbh. I record at -12db peak and then raise it on editing software to try and avoid clipping and too much noise from pre-amps. It's a lot of messing around tbh. The lower you can get the noise at the source, the easier it is to remove properly.
I had a phantom power supply playing up recently out of the blue. Injected his and hum at a low level into the audio and was really difficult to remove. Ended up using notch filters to get it. Frans lent me a battery operated supply which performed way better so I realised that there was some kind of problem in the mains supply to the unit. Dumped it for a cheap Behringer and now it's fine!! Nice gear that they make.
What are you using to access the BBC feed Derek?
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Post by hifidez on Jul 30, 2017 9:55:23 GMT
Mic noise is always a problem tbh. I record at -12db peak and then raise it on editing software to try and avoid clipping and too much noise from pre-amps. It's a lot of messing around tbh. The lower you can get the noise at the source, the easier it is to remove properly. I had a phantom power supply playing up recently out of the blue. Injected his and hum at a low level into the audio and was really difficult to remove. Ended up using notch filters to get it. Frans lent me a battery operated supply which performed way better so I realised that there was some kind of problem in the mains supply to the unit. Dumped it for a cheap Behringer and now it's fine!! Nice gear that they make. What are you using to access the BBC feed Derek? Try this: www.bbc.co.uk/taster/projects/radio-3-concert-sound2It seems to me that not only are the Proms in full CD quality FLAC, but it's all through the day too. Just captured a sample off-air and the FR goes out properly to 20kHz, not chopped off early as with MPEG or whatever the BBC usually use. Used Firefox browser, that's what the BBC have chosen to deliver it through.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jul 30, 2017 10:11:27 GMT
Thanks Derek.
The more people that log in to it, the more likely that they'll set it up.
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Post by hifidez on Aug 16, 2017 12:49:20 GMT
OK - that Behringer audio interface.
I continue to be pleased with it. Still using it as a USB DAC/amp and it's stunning. There is some volume control imbalance at low listening levels which isn't surprising as it's definitely budget kit. However, that can be overcome by using the mixer control to lower the level of the USB input. Also a simple headphone attenuator would be just as good, if not better.
The bass, as said before, is rich and solid. Really musical. It's detailed without at all being hard. It makes my Cambridge DacMagic XS sound lifeless and reccessed. And the DacMagic's a nice piece of kit.
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solderdude
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measureutternutter
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Post by solderdude on Aug 16, 2017 19:41:34 GMT
I am still procastrinating ... have almost hit the buy button on the UMC202. But then I would need to retire either my EMU (measurements) or other DAC which still work well.
edit: bought the UMC204HD afterall as I can use a double output.
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