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Post by darkarn on Oct 23, 2017 19:48:02 GMT
Was reading up more on subwoofers when I started seeing this "crossover" thingy. Searched further and found these external crossovers (http://www.hlabs.com/products/crossovers/)
I wonder if I can use these such that I can repurpose the "subwoofer" of my old speakers as my subwoofer for my LSRs or even improve the overall setup of any speakers (be it old or new) by making sure each piece plays only what they are good at
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 23, 2017 19:58:25 GMT
looks like passive filters that can be used between a source (in this case the line-out from the Ember) and an active speaker or power amp. You will need a high pass and a low pass and a signal splitter for each channel. And an (active) subwoofer.
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Post by darkarn on Oct 24, 2017 5:52:38 GMT
Thanks, I am wondering if using a Y-splitter and both high pass and low pass (maybe the 70 Hz version?) filters per channel will work
In other words, for each channel:
High Pass Filter --RCA Cable--> LSR 305 / Mimby --RCA Cable--> Ember --RCA Splitter-- \ Low Pass Filter --RCA Cable--> "Subwoofer"
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Post by darkarn on Oct 24, 2017 16:40:08 GMT
Additional information: Specs of speaker system that the "subwoofer" is coming from: www.swanspeaker.com/product/htm/view.asp?id=373Link for the LSRs for reference: www.jblpro.com/www/products/recording-broadcast/3-series/lsr305This "subwoofer" is powered seeing that it needs to be connected to electricity for it to even produce sound. It appears to pass through all frequencies in its lineout ports (i.e. no inbuilt crossover) seeing that I can still hear all frequencies that the speakers are rated for from any speakers connected to these ports, be it the LSRs or the Swans' satellite speakers Funny part is that despite what it says (or maybe it was simply confusing?), the "subwoofer" was playing sounds above and below 80 Hz (e.g. in this test: www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_subwoofercrossovermidrange.php). Idea is to see if I can just restrict this to just 80 Hz and see what happens to the sound. This is one of my motivations for this test should I decide to go forward with it
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 24, 2017 19:15:02 GMT
Thanks, I am wondering if using a Y-splitter and both high pass and low pass (maybe the 70 Hz version?) filters per channel will work In other words, for each channel: High Pass Filter --RCA Cable--> LSR 305 / Mimby --RCA Cable--> Ember --RCA Splitter-- \ Low Pass Filter --RCA Cable--> "Subwoofer" Yup.
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Post by darkarn on Oct 25, 2017 14:05:48 GMT
Thanks, I am wondering if using a Y-splitter and both high pass and low pass (maybe the 70 Hz version?) filters per channel will work In other words, for each channel: High Pass Filter --RCA Cable--> LSR 305 / Mimby --RCA Cable--> Ember --RCA Splitter-- \ Low Pass Filter --RCA Cable--> "Subwoofer" Yup. Thanks for the confirm! I did some more preliminary reading and testing (gotta make sure it will be worthwhile!) and found some interesting results: 1. Most people used either the high pass or the low pass, not both, in their audio system. I wonder why... 2. There is PFMOD too that does both, not sure if this may be better in my case (and I saw some negative remarks about it, gotta read a bit more to confirm): www.hlabs.com/products/crossovers/index_files/Page384.htm There is a local music shop here that may have it, it will be easier if I go for this. (I need to import the FMODs via Parts Express if going for the FMODs instead) 3. Apparently these FMODs act slightly differently with different impedance, quite concerned that this may lead to a "hole" in the frequency response of my overall system or at least create a bump somewhere if done wrongly: www.hlabs.com/products/crossovers/index_files/Page446.htm4. I used Equalizer APO to simulate what will happen when I use these crossovers and here's the values. I will be referring to the respective rows in these square brackets 5. [7] is what I need to get the "subwoofer" to play only the bass sounds that I want so as to not disrupt the imaging if it goes over 120 Hz (as mentioned here: www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_subwoofercrossovermidrange.php ), I am unsure how to achieve this with the crossovers. As mentioned earlier, any speakers connected to its speaker out (i.e. Ember -> "subwoofer" -> speakers) will be able to play at almost all frequencies (even female vocals and some cymbals) despite feeding it only signal that has below 120 Hz! 6. [6] sounded really nice on the LSR 305. I felt that without a subwoofer, their full potential cannot be reached seeing that they are trying to handle too much with the 5" woofers. Using [6], they quite close to Yamaha HS5 in terms of clarity of the highs but less fatiguing and harsh. Of course, some bass information is missing once this is used but hey, that's what the subwoofer is for, right? Let's see if I can achieve this 7. I suspect [4] and [5] will be what I will be getting when using these passive crossovers though. The "subwoofer" would play above 120 Hz when [5] is used unlike [7] 8. Using [6] and [7] will recreate a flat frequency graph while [4] and [5] will not. I am not sure how this will transfer over to the real world once and if I get the crossover; will getting something like [4] for the LSR and [5] for the "subwoofer" be able to recreate the flat frequency graph well enough? May have to bite the bullet to find out... 9. Something tells me that maybe a miniDSP may fit me better as an active crossover, but I am trying not to use it so as to get the full effect of the Mimby's multibit DAC (since the analog signal will have to go through the miniDSP's ADC and DAC) EDIT: 10. Can't find many links that I can use this time. Only this seems useful: www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=58429&sid=3c9e9db52f93d76e0ff1a6ffb0a59bbfSorry if this is a bit lengthier than expected but I want to document all these properly. This crossover thingy seems like a much bigger rabbit (sorry Ian! ) hole than expected!
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 25, 2017 21:31:28 GMT
In any case you want to limit the frequency range of the sub.
You could skip the high pass for the LSR as they simply don't reproduce the bottom octaves.
When you place the sub away from the LSR's (but not too far) chances are it will sound good.
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Post by darkarn on Oct 26, 2017 19:18:17 GMT
In any case you want to limit the frequency range of the sub. You could skip the high pass for the LSR as they simply don't reproduce the bottom octaves. When you place the sub away from the LSR's (but not too far) chances are it will sound good. Thanks! Just not sure what you meant by the LSR not reproducing the bottom octaves since I can still hear the bass when not using any EQ
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Post by solderdude on Oct 26, 2017 20:49:59 GMT
the bottom octaves being 16Hz and 32Hz. The 305 starts to drop off below 50Hz.
Don't know if your sub can do that though. Usually you need a large sized woofer or a smaller one with a very large swing.
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Post by darkarn on Oct 27, 2017 11:25:55 GMT
the bottom octaves being 16Hz and 32Hz. The 305 starts to drop off below 50Hz. Don't know if your sub can do that though. Usually you need a large sized woofer or a smaller one with a very large swing. I can't find any frequency graph for the Swans M10 from people not affiliated with the company unlike other audio gear, it is hard to determine the exact performance of the subwoofer Looks like the only way is to go test it out I'll go ahead with the PFMOD, it is 18 dB per octave for low pass and 12 dB per octave for high pass (unless FMOD which is 12 dB per octave for both high and low pass) So far, only these guys (https://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=speakers&m=266557) have commented about the PFMOD, saying that it will perform a bit weaker than the FMOD which may be caused by its flexibility in being able to choose different frequencies to play with
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Post by solderdude on Oct 27, 2017 13:12:14 GMT
The M10 system is specified to 42HZ That isn't a big difference with the 305 which is specified to 43Hz.
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Post by darkarn on Oct 29, 2017 20:13:50 GMT
The M10 system is specified to 42HZ That isn't a big difference with the 305 which is specified to 43Hz. I see, does this mean that by adding this subwoofer I will be getting more bass but not deeper bass as in the case of using a LSR 310S that does 27 Hz? And thus, by using the crossover, I can be sure that the subwoofer is playing only signals below a certain frequency (and vice versa for the speakers)?
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 30, 2017 6:00:42 GMT
Adding the sub will not give you lower frequencies. You can play with the volume control of the sub though and increase the bass. Maybe re-positioning the 305's can boost bass as well though.
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Post by darkarn on Oct 31, 2017 5:53:05 GMT
Adding the sub will not give you lower frequencies. You can play with the volume control of the sub though and increase the bass. Maybe re-positioning the 305's can boost bass as well though. Thanks, I have added the subwoofer but not the crossover yet, can already see some improvement in terms of amount of bass As for the 305s' position, I have yet to get/build proper stands for them yet. I have at least angled them to face me (i.e. the equilateral triangle rule)
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Post by solderdude on Oct 31, 2017 7:38:03 GMT
The 'fun' part of the LSR305 is that the treble isn't really directional as with most other speakers. You get a solid 'image' regardless where one stands. This is due to the strange 'horn'.
You can 'vary' the amount of bass the sub. I suggest to buy a low pass for it. Around 50 or 70Hz and only use that with the sub.
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