|
|
Post by thunderhead on Jul 29, 2013 14:35:35 GMT
I haven't heard those phones as the phone sections of the "high end" stores here are a travesty.
|
|
|
|
Post by thunderhead on Sept 1, 2013 18:16:30 GMT
I did some research and settled for a DT880. The bass did improve and mids and highs very good These seemd to rate higher in those areas. I can EQ the bass. When running the 880s on the Ember, they kind of "explode".
I see the DT770 rated 1.75 second only to Senn HD600 1.48 GERI at Golden Ears so they are next. Time to convert some Grados to the DT770.
|
|
Rabbit
Administrator
Posts: 7,091
|
Post by Rabbit on Sept 1, 2013 18:23:54 GMT
Are you eq'ing so the bass is stronger on the DT 880? I had the old version of the 880's and did find the bass a bit mean. I am curious about the new version with the more rounded cups though.
The first version out me off!!
|
|
solderdude
Administrator
measureutternutter
Posts: 4,887
|
Post by solderdude on Sept 1, 2013 18:53:28 GMT
It should be noted there are MANY different versions of the DT770.
Ranging from almost flat (DT880 style) to thumping overblown fatty one note bass.
All have a lifted top end (as do DT880/DT990 and all Grado's)
|
|
|
|
Post by thunderhead on Sept 2, 2013 13:49:28 GMT
Hello guys,
The 880s are the new 600 ohm rounded version with velour pads. I did a lot of reading before deciding on them. The Ember drives them well.
The purpose of the bass EQ boost was merely to see how they could handle it, which they did well. Listening to them with the Ember requires (to me) some boost with older (70s - 80s)and just poor recordings.
Ditto the thumping overblown fatty one note bass, based on reviews I read. Some reviews call them "theater sound" which is just that; many articles about mods too. With the risk of getting the wrong ones, I have shelved the idea for now. The 880s are my first Beyers and I think I did well.
So, looking at the GERI index, it looks like I must add some Senns to the fold, in particular HD600?
|
|
solderdude
Administrator
measureutternutter
Posts: 4,887
|
Post by solderdude on Sept 2, 2013 14:03:47 GMT
HD600 is a true 'reference' phone and very flat.
Flatter than HD650 so some may find it boring and slightly less 'detailed' 'bright' 'sparkly' compared to DT880-600
HD600 pairs well with Ember set to high impedance (Beyers too), this will give it a very slight bass lift.
The HD600 is comparatively 'tame' compared to DT880.
On high quality recordings both sound very good.
|
|
|
|
Post by davidb on Oct 22, 2013 9:33:09 GMT
I post this here for others to get the possible answer as well instead of posting directly to Solderdude or Jeremy  Right now I have a starlight (the one touring Denmark) sitting at my disk providing me with wonderful sound quality. It has kicked new life in to my HD681 and my B&OH6 and the synergy with my Spiral Ears 3-ref is something that really appeals to me. So I have decided to take one home with me when I visit the States in the beginning of december. But.... when I listen with my SE (which are my primary headphones right now) it gets really loud really quickly. There is a slight imbalance which are gone at a little above 8 o'clock. Here the level is good for "normal" listening but I often also need the level to be lower. When I reach 9 o'clock it is just to loud. With the 681 and H6 it does not get to loud to quickly but here I would also like to be able to listen at a lower level without imbalance. I have been using: mac - Stoner Acoustics ud110 - starlight - SE-3-way-ref. The Stoner has this output: 2Vrms @ 10kohm load - I have no idea what is means but it might be important info? KetilB from Hoved-fi.dk told me that it might be possible to chance something so the above might be possible. I have no technical knowledge so I don't know what might have to be chanced. I am also in doubt which one to buy - Starlight or Ember. As I understand it the main difference is power and some auto settings on the Ember plus a gain switch and the possibility to use the Ember as a pre amp. But there should be no sound quality difference - right? So... when would one choose the Ember over the Starlight when all the auto settings does not matter that much? I will not be rolling tubes very often Do you think it would be possible to get the Starlight or Ember to work smoothly with my Siral Ears without destroying the possibility to make it work with harder to drive headphones that will likely come my way in the future? |
|
solderdude
Administrator
measureutternutter
Posts: 4,887
|
Post by solderdude on Oct 22, 2013 10:48:12 GMT
It is possible to change 2 resistors in the 'gain adjust' part so the difference between low and high gain can be increased.
This way you can use the gain settings when using sensitive headphones.
Another way around it is to make a low impedance (voltage divider) network which you plug the SE into which plugs in the amp.
This reduces noise, and limits the max output power as well protecting the headphone.
The differences between Starlight and Ember are considerable.
Ember can deliver much more power in high and low impedance headphones.
If you feel you don't need more power than Starlight will do.
Starlight has rollable opamps, Ember has not.
Ember has input cap bypass which also affects the tubes adjustment point, Starlight is always cap coupled.
Ember can accomodate more tubes but Starlight accepts tubes with heater currents above 500mA (up to 1A) where Ember is limited to max 500mA tubes (some 600mA tubes is no problem)
Ember has so much power that in an unfortunate event that the volume is very high the Ember will destroy the SE, the Starlight does provide a lot of power but less in any case.
If you plan to go ortho or high impedance headphones the Ember is the better choice.
The typical 'sound' of these amps cmes form the tube and because the tube circuit itself is very similar the sound is too (up to certain levels).
|
|
|
|
Post by davidb on Oct 22, 2013 18:23:02 GMT
Thanks a lot for your answer and your time. It is appreciated!
It seems like it would be safe for me to get the Ember (or either of them) and then make it work with my SE by either change resistors or - which appeals to me even more - getting building a low impedance network, if it is necessary. The low impedance network appeals to me, but I would not know how to get around it. I assume that it would be a DIY project?
Any way... it has to be pretty solid work in order to be able to sell a amplifier to a guy how dosen't necessarily need it, but want's it any way because it sounds good!
|
|
solderdude
Administrator
measureutternutter
Posts: 4,887
|
Post by solderdude on Oct 26, 2013 11:28:09 GMT
It seems the Starlight might have finished the Danish tour..
Is there anyone else interested in auditioning it... otherwise it will probably be sent home (to me)
|
|
|
|
Post by davidb on Oct 27, 2013 19:49:38 GMT
Ok.... I think I would like to play around with the voltage divider thing. Is it correctly understood that this is not buyable, and that it would be a DIY project? As I see it you can put one between the source and the amp in order to lower the input to the amp or you could put one between the amp and the headphone in order to lower output from the amp and protect the headphone if this is a sensitive one like my Spiral Ears. Also it seems that a it would be a relatively simple thing to make. Actually just a potmeter with some rca's in both end would do the trick? This way you would have an adjustable voltage divider. But is it that simple? I am also thinking that an adjustable one would be great between the source and the amp but not between the amp and the headphone because it should also act as a protective measure for the headphone when used just before them. If this is correct should there then be a difference in the design other than the post amp divider should not be adjustable? Should there be some kind of extra components to make the post amp divider low impedance in order to fit the sensitive headphones? Would such a diver affect the sound quality? lot of questions I know - Sorry What I am essentially asking about is how the .... should I build such a divider |
|
|
|
Post by davidb on Oct 27, 2013 20:42:43 GMT
I fund this: It is generally accepted that the ideal input sensitivity for a CD input should be around 600 millivolts. A few credible modern amplifier designs reflect this - but they are few and far between. On this webpage: www.goldenjacks.comDoes this has any validity in your opinion? And if we compare that with the starlight and Ember which have the following input sensitivity depending on tube used (the lower the number the more sensitive - right?): Stralight: 270 millivolt Ember: 800 millivolt or 1600 millivolt If the above is correct then the Ember should be more suited for sources with a output of around 2 volts (CD-level), making it more suited for sensitive headphones? |
|
solderdude
Administrator
measureutternutter
Posts: 4,887
|
Post by solderdude on Oct 27, 2013 21:40:20 GMT
The gain (and thus sensitivity) is determined by the gain. Also the Ember has twice the output voltage Starlight has and thus is also twice as high as that of Starlight. A CD player generally has output voltages between 1V and 2V. The sensitivity changes with the volpot. If the volume control is set very low it takes maybe even 10V to reach full power. These input attenuators are to get better volume control and are already present in Ember. For Spiral Ears you need to attenuate the output and need to do so with a specific ratio and impedance to get optimal results. All other headphones do not need an attenuator, only sensitive IEM's do. They are very easy to make though and basically is the same as what I discussed HERE but with other values. Did you try the SE on high output R settings and did they sound best on low R out ? (it should) |
|
|
|
Post by davidb on Oct 28, 2013 20:58:04 GMT
Hi Frans, Thank you for your time.
Yes i have tried my SE on the high R setting and it is significant better sounding on the low setting. And I can see that the Ember, which I have decided to purchase, has a even lower option which may fit the SE even better.
I have read the article you linked to, but I have a hard time determine which value the resistors should have.
I have decided that I would like to build one (voltage divider) for my Spiral eras to be used on the Ember. As I understand it I need to know the following:
1. Output power of the Ember: 15.7Vrms at 300Ohm - but this is different from the @ 4Ohm or 8 ohm in the charts. So I don't know what to do here.
2. Power rating of the SE 3 way ref - which I can not find any where - but I assume that it is within 100 - 700 MW
3. impedance of the headphone - Which I can not find anywhere and Grzegorz does not have any measurements, but I assume that it is below 40 ohm. Clausdk has guessed it to be around 40 ohm.
4. For the output resistance I assume that a low one (less than 1ohm) would be preferable, but KetilB from hoved-fi.dk has used his 3way ref with the Naim Headline @ 10 ohm with no problem.
Can I use the charts in your article to find the right R value based on the above or is it some different charts/numbers I should use?
And if I was to make one for the starlight, would the calculation be different?
By the way... is the starlight I have for sale or do you want it home?
|
|
solderdude
Administrator
measureutternutter
Posts: 4,887
|
Post by solderdude on Oct 28, 2013 21:59:03 GMT
The SE will probably be around 30mW.
It will also be low impedance, unfortunately I cannot find any technical details about it so remaisn a guessing job.
Perhaps inform with the manufacturer.
Unleashing 2W on it (by accident) will most certainly destroy it and it's too expensive for that.
When you make a voltage divider with 10 Ohm over the headphone and 56 Ohm to the output of the amp you will have an output R of around 8.5 Ohm and it loads the Ember with about 60 Ohms.
When you make a voltage divider with 4.7 Ohm over the headphone and 27 Ohm to the output of the amp you will have an output R of around 4 Ohm and it loads the Ember with about 32 Ohms.
In both cases your SE will be safe and will be driven to max 100mW when set at full power.
For Starlight the calc would be different and you can do current limiting by simply using just one LM4562 as output stage.
In that case you can use it at low output R setting and output power will be 'limited' to 150mW.
|
|
