solderdude
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measureutternutter
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Post by solderdude on Oct 19, 2013 7:59:43 GMT
The fun of the Ember is it is really easy to do some rolling.
IF one is really wanting to know how big the differences really are here is a small tip.
Put something in front of the amp so you cannot see WHAT tube is in there.
Use a source with a volume control so you don't have to adjust the volume on the Ember.
This is needed because various tubes have different amounts of overall gain and an increase of just 1 dB can throw the comparison in favour of the 'louder' one WITHOUT realising it really plays louder (you need more dB's for that).
For that reason between the tube rolling turn down the volume
Ask the wife (or someone else) to pop in a tube (selected from 2 to 5 tubes).
Make SURE the amp is switched off when pulling and inserting tubes by the 'roller'(Male/Female).
turn up the volume to a comfortable level and listen and rate.
The roller and you have to keep notes of what you 'experience' and what the roller inserted.
See if there is a clear correlation.
There are some tubes (the high gain ones) that have a very detectable highs roll-off and some have a detectable lows roll off.
This way you can really determine the assets (not those of the roller but the tubes without knowing (bias) what's popped in there).
As you don't have to 'prove' what's in there and can be in the comfort of your own home at your preferred time and only have to listen and rate the test is reasonably valid but only IF all tubes pass at least 2 or 3 times in random order (which could mean 2 times the same tube in a row) during the session.
This is because level differences will be there and can still throw of the proper assessment.
When there is a clear correlation in the results the differences are very real.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 19, 2013 8:33:18 GMT
I've tried it over a period of 2 months, Frans. Gave the wife a lesson on how to change tubes and gave her 3 to pop in. Tbh, I didn't notice. Obviously depending on what I played and what volume I listened at..... Then I tried it on the spot. She randomly put one in and it was pretty difficult. I could get them up to a point, and spotted eb's. I also spotted Jan Philips, basically because I felt that they were more 'even'. But it's a struggle for me. That experiment has saved me a lot of money spent on tubes!! In all honesty, I'd say detail retrieval is virtually the same, but there are very slight timbral differences perhaps, which could just be variations between recordings. Playing the same recording makes it a bit easier. The 'massive' differences described sometimes that I read about are mostly inexperienced listeners who have to prove that they didn't waste money, or they have great big fat goldy ears!!  Ie; it's more to do with their ego than it is with sound!!  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2013 12:43:53 GMT
ok lets try a different plan of attack.
can someone recommend a cheap (CRAP) tube that will work in the Ember.
i cannot imagine anything making the Ember sound bad.
the worse one i have tried is one of my old jan 6922, but i am sure now that the tube is now faulty as there is
quite a loud hiss (not constantly). this is not heard with my other jan 6922.
so it's one for the bin.
anyway please recommend a tube that is considered poor. just curious to hear the difference.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 19, 2013 13:06:55 GMT
Simon, if you are getting hiss with the Jans, it's old and needs replacing. One sign of them deteriorating is a raised noise level. You can even get 'fidgeting' noises when they're on the way.
Even the cheap Chinese 6922 valves sound ok!!
The value seems to go up with the rarity of the tube more than sound imo. When you think, I've bought 7 Amperex 6922 for £3 each then a tube even at £30 is ten times the cost and certainly not ten times better and won't last ten times as long either!!
Have you tried your eb Russian yet? See how much difference you can hear!! (They are a good tube though)
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Post by itsalive on Oct 19, 2013 13:50:49 GMT
ok lets try a different plan of attack. can someone recommend a cheap (CRAP) tube that will work in the Ember. i cannot imagine anything making the Ember sound bad. the worse one i have tried is one of my old jan 6922, but i am sure now that the tube is now faulty as there is quite a loud hiss (not constantly). this is not heard with my other jan 6922. so it's one for the bin. anyway please recommend a tube that is considered poor. just curious to hear the difference. I do know cheap tubes, but i don't know crappy tubes  If you're looking for cheap you can try these : 6CG7 : around 9$ per tube 6GU7 : around 8$ per tube 6N2P-Ev : around 5$ per tube 6BQ7A / 6BZ7 : around 5$ per tube |
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Post by chinook9 on Oct 19, 2013 14:15:44 GMT
I do a lot of tube rolling and was wondering if most of you have a selection of music that you use to evaluate tubes?
I don't believe I have very good hearing/auditory discrimination and I found that if I didn't focus my evaluation on a few selected tracks, representing the audio frequency spectrum, I had a great deal of trouble describing differences.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2013 14:15:52 GMT
Simon, if you are getting hiss with the Jans, it's old and needs replacing. One sign of them deteriorating is a raised noise level. You can even get 'fidgeting' noises when they're on the way. Even the cheap Chinese 6922 valves sound ok!! The value seems to go up with the rarity of the tube more than sound imo. When you think, I've bought 7 Amperex 6922 for £3 each then a tube even at £30 is ten times the cost and certainly not ten times better and won't last ten times as long either!! Have you tried your eb Russian yet? See how much difference you can hear!! (They are a good tube though) yeah i had a feeling the jan was cream cream crackered!, at least one of them is still good though. tried the EB earlier and that sounds faultless. i only wish i had kept the 2 eb's i had in my x-can v2. they also came from Mike. |
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 19, 2013 14:26:46 GMT
Nice one Itsalive!!!
They are GREAT value. Let's hope the greedy baskets don't start buying them all up and then raise the price!! That's really what happens. We tend to be a bit 'precious' about valves in the UK and like to pay lots for them!! Most of my cheaper valves have been sent from the USA which is quite funny when you work out where they were made!
When I was younger, I repaired valve tv's as a freelance. Most of the time, it was just knackered valves, so I had hundreds of them and just changed the whole set in the tv. It saved my time and was dirt cheap - especially using pulls, but I could buy these things really cheap.
Then I put a synth together and gave up on tv's!!
Simon, yes the eb's are very nice. Indeed, Mike has a ton of them. Oh well!! Still, you can only use one at a time, although I still hesitate when they go over £20. In a way you see, Mike kind of sets a base price for them since he has a load of them and others will use the base price in order to value their own. However, they are a good one, so I don't mind. They're also quite tough.
Mind you, with your orthos, you will probably pick up genuine differences. Ember is brilliant for tube swapping but it could become an obsession!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2013 14:27:50 GMT
ok lets try a different plan of attack. can someone recommend a cheap (CRAP) tube that will work in the Ember. i cannot imagine anything making the Ember sound bad. the worse one i have tried is one of my old jan 6922, but i am sure now that the tube is now faulty as there is quite a loud hiss (not constantly). this is not heard with my other jan 6922. so it's one for the bin. anyway please recommend a tube that is considered poor. just curious to hear the difference. I do know cheap tubes, but i don't know crappy tubes If you're looking for cheap you can try these : 6CG7 : around 9$ per tube 6GU7 : around 8$ per tube 6N2P-Ev : around 5$ per tube 6BQ7A / 6BZ7 : around 5$ per tube i have the 6n2p-ev, you mention. bought it from Jeremy at same time as the Ember after reading your previous comments. i really like it. what got me started, was Jeremy's comment after your post......"6n2p is pretty much a 6v 12ax7. Not exactly my taste but some love them." so i wanted to find out what he considered to be his favourite tube (only in the Ember). trouble is ya get hooked  |
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 19, 2013 14:38:43 GMT
Too right!!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2013 14:41:16 GMT
keeps me off the streets though
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 19, 2013 14:46:11 GMT
And gets you really listening to the music. I love the sound of the Ember and use it as a special treat rather than just a casual listen. All that configuration along with tube changes makes it such a chameleon that you have quite a few variations; let alone a headphone change.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2013 18:52:34 GMT
have been comparing my rca 12au7a with my newly arrived 6h23n-eb today and have noticed the former is very "lean" sounding in comparison!
i much prefer the 6h23n-eb.
as tube differences are generally regarded as small, would i be right now to disregard any other brands/variants of 12au7?
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 19, 2013 19:15:30 GMT
I would, Simon. If you're not so keen on them, I'd steer clear of any other similars. The 'eb' is a good tube with a little more weight. That's why I like them, but others prefer a less bass led sound.
I'm sticking with my orange globe for the time being, but I may switch back to one of my 'eb's later!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2013 20:51:25 GMT
I would, Simon. If you're not so keen on them, I'd steer clear of any other similars. The 'eb' is a good tube with a little more weight. That's why I like them, but others prefer a less bass led sound. I'm sticking with my orange globe for the time being, but I may switch back to one of my 'eb's later!! can you give a brief comparison of the eb vs orange globe? |
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