Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 28, 2015 21:20:07 GMT
Yes, as long as you use it via analogue in, Simon.
It's the best portable amp I've tried tbh. Just a bit big to be truly portable, but it has great depth and power.
Digital signals won't work.
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oldson
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Post by oldson on Mar 28, 2015 21:28:44 GMT
Yes, as long as you use it via analogue in, Simon. It's the best portable amp I've tried tbh. Just a bit big to be truly portable, but it has great depth and power. Digital signals won't work. i thought it only had a analogue out?
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 28, 2015 22:02:32 GMT
No. You can connect your source via an analogue in so use it as a normal amp (which is very good too) or you can connect digitally via usb, optical or coax.
I use it every way. Optical in for tv. Usb from computer and IPad (with a camera adapter) or a mini digital from digital out on my Fiio x3. Hi res is brilliant directly from the Fiio.
You can also connect it to active speakers with either analogue or digital in, so it is a pre-amp as well. It has two phono out sockets.
You can also adjust its power range quite considerably, so it is ok for even iem's as well as higher impedance headphones.
It's quite a versatile little amp and I find myself using it more and more with the th900.
It also has this 3d effect which is really nice with headphones. It kind of spreads the sound out and makes headphones sound more open.
I like it a lot.
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oldson
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Post by oldson on Mar 31, 2015 20:49:23 GMT
i was primarily thinking of using it to replace my current dac or as a portable amp . i see it has a digital out also. so i guess it could also be used as a usb-spdif converter. i wonder if it compares to the ifi i-link when used in this way?
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 31, 2015 21:23:03 GMT
Well, it sounds damned good whatever I do with it Simon. Mick recommended it to me and I know that he doesn't beat around the bush with these things. It's the best portable that I've had, although it is quite big.
It's pricey, I know, but I'm very glad I got one.
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oldson
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Post by oldson on Apr 3, 2015 17:43:26 GMT
not as pricey as the upcoming idsd "pro", which i mentioned a few pages back. (the desktop dac/amp) due to be released next month. i believe it will be around the £1500 mark. obviously not portable and i assume will not have the clean battery supply. however i am considering it, bearing in mind ifi's reputation for "bang for buck" value. at that price it should tick a lot of boxes. www.head-fi.org/t/702376/ifi-audio-pro-desktop-line-discussion-thread
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 3, 2015 19:42:56 GMT
I've been using the Senn hd650 with the Micro and that gets pretty lively too. Very nice. The 3d effect brings the top end in nicely so it's not quite as closed down as it can be. Listening to some Jethro Tull on FLAC is just briliant. Really revealing. The Senn do such a good job.
I do like the Micro enormously. It really is a great amp. It has so many options for plugging in and high quality files are superb. The Nano isn't quite what I'd expected. It's better with higher impedance so that the noise is more under control. It's great with Senns, but I wouldn't walk down the street with them on my head!!
Not sure I'd pay that much for idsd pro. I have a psychological barrier once prices go beyond around £500. I used to have a headphone one of £300 but I've just blown that away though, so ignore me!!
Mick, if you're around ..... Do you use the bit perfect switch for DSD? I prefer the halfway setting on the th900 myself. Bit perfect seems to suck out the bottom. Don't fully get that switch or exactly what the polarity switch does to the sound.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 3, 2015 22:22:42 GMT
I agree, you can end up playing around with all the inputs and variables. It's also really good into Senn hd650. Just don't fully understand the point behind positive and negative. The bit perfect can sound a bit thin to me. It's some kind of filter I think. Ifi don't really explain much and leave you to your own device!! (s) The bits that really affect the sound on DSD are: Standard Minimum phase Bit-perfect Bit-perfect sounds a bit thin to me. The switch has less effect on other files but DSD is dramatically different with this switch. I'm not sure exactly what is happening with it. One that I hear no difference on is polarity. I'm blowed if I can hear anything change. While I know what a polarity change means, I'm not sure why it's there.
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Javier
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Post by Javier on Apr 5, 2015 11:16:07 GMT
According to the manual of the iFi Micro iDSD (TI BB DSD1793 based) has the following filters:
DSD: Extreme/Extended/ Standard Range (analogue) filters PCM: Bit-Perfect/Minimum-Phase/Standard (digital) filters DXD: Bit-Perfect Processing (fixed) analogue filter
Tip: For PCM we recommend “Bit-Perfect” for listening and “Standard” for measurements. For DSD, select Extreme/Extended/Standard to find the one that sounds best for listening and “Standard Range” for measurements.
I'll start by saying DXD is 24/352.8 PCM so no idea why they put is a separate category.
Contrary to what their "tip" says I reckon Bit-Perfect should be used only when playing higher than 44.1/48KHz or there will be tons of artifacts as the analogue stage in the DAC cannot filter properly all the digital nasties. It will make sense when feeding either High Res of at least 2x (88.2/96KHz) but preferably 4x (176.4/192KHz) or optimally 8x (352.8/384KHz). With HQPlayer it is possible to upsample to 752.8/768KHz which the Micro accepts and will provide the best results in Bit-Perfect mode.
Minimum Phase and Standard I believe are the usual filters included in many DACs, the former reducing pre ringing and being theoretically more suited to studio recordings whereas the second would be plain vanilla linear interpolation and be more suited to acoustic music like classical. IMO either would be preferable over Bit-Perfect for CD or any other standard resolution signals.
As to DSD analogue filters (Extreme/Extended/Standard Range), they are explained in the DSD1793 data sheet (pages 40 & 41). I guess preference will very depending on input signal, the higher the DSD speed the less need to filter aggressively because the ultrasonic noise is displaced further up the freq range. With regular DSD noise starts to build up at around 30KHz but if upsampled to 2x DSD (DSD128) noise is pushed to 60KHz and filtering can be made less aggressive. The higher the upsampling, 4x (DSD256) or even 8x (DSD512)are supported by the micro, the better performance digital artifact and noise wise. Less aggressive filtering means better phase response.
AFAIK HQPLayer is the only software available that can upsample standard DSD to higher DSD rates without intermediate PCM conversion steps. It is also great for converting PCM of any sampling rate to high rate DSD with much higher accuracy than that of the DSD1793 - remember this chip is Sigma Delta and WILL ALLWAYS convert any PCM to its native SDM DSD like format - which can be sent with out further processing to D to A stage where it will be subject to the analogue filtering mentioned in the previous paragraph.
In later revisions of Foobar's SACD plugin it is possible to upsample DSD real time but unfortunately it involves an intermediate PCM step: DSD->PCM->DSD which is the reason I didn't include in the Foobar guide. On the other hand it is possible to convert PCM to up to DSD512 with 8 different encoding options.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 5, 2015 11:34:03 GMT
Bit-perfect sound thin to me Javier. Maybe I'm hearing artifacts? Minimum phase sounds more natural and standard is slightly fatter still. The timbre changes can be quite dramatic on some types of file and not so dramatic on others. I haven't worked out which types of file yet though.
Actually, bit perfect might open the Senn HD650 up a bit!! On th900, it's a bit edgy tbh.
I can't hear anything change with polarity changes.
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Javier
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Post by Javier on Apr 5, 2015 11:54:55 GMT
IMO the way to make the most of the Micro would be using HQPlayer set up to convert everything to DSD256. As not everyone can afford it (it is cetainly not cheap), next best would be either SOX plugin in Foobar to upsample everything to 192KHz (and use Min. Phase or Standard on the DAC) or the SACD plugin to output either DSD256 or DSD512 and play with different micro modes to check which one sounds best to one's ear.
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Post by ronzo56 on Apr 5, 2015 12:27:52 GMT
Javier, I read that DXD at 24/352.8 doesn't need any anti-aliasing filters at all because the "nasties" are so high up in frequency they don't cause IM distortion down in the audible band. If true is it possible to take 16/44.1 and upsample to DXD. I am just getting the basics of all this at this point so forgive my ignorance. Would one add dither to the 16 bit word? If that was done would that take care of the filtering issues? Or am I missing something?
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Javier
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Post by Javier on Apr 5, 2015 14:30:52 GMT
Javier, I read that DXD at 24/352.8 doesn't need any anti-aliasing filters at all because the "nasties" are so high up in frequency they don't cause IM distortion down in the audible band. If true is it possible to take 16/44.1 and upsample to DXD. I am just getting the basics of all this at this point so forgive my ignorance. Would one add dither to the 16 bit word? If that was done would that take care of the filtering issues? Or am I missing something? The "theoritical" advantage of native DXD over lower sampling rates is that there is no processing required, the moment you over/upsample that advantage would be lost as instead of "real" samples you'd be using "interpolated" ones. Over/upsampling is done automatically by the DAC chips in most converters, usually in three 2x steps. If you feed 44.1 they will oversample 1st x2 to 88.2 then again x2 to 176.4 and again 2x to 352.8. If you provide, say, 88.2 the DAC will only do two steps to achieve the same result and in case of 176.4 it will only perform a single 2x step. This is due to the small processing capacity of the ICs which, unlike computers, can't do it in a single 8x or 4x step. Dither is also controlled by the IC and usually is TPDF. As NOS is not a good idea from a technical point of view, most manufacturers skip the "Bit-Perfect" option. The micro allows to "bypass" this by using the external filter mode and then providing no external filter. Some people, mostly old R2R DAC owners, say NOS sounds better to them though from a technical POV it makes no sense, I haven't tried it myself as I have no NOS capable DAC.
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Javier
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Post by Javier on Apr 5, 2015 14:45:25 GMT
What filter setting would you advise using on the Micro, if i follow the DSD256 route on HQPlayer then Javier!! Mick. That would requiere a lenghty answer but I'd start with "poly-sync-mp" + "DSD5v2 256+fS" + "22579200", if the PC can't handle it and I got stutter then I'll try next best "poly-sync-mp + DSD5v2 256+fS + 11289600". If that still proves to much then I'll change the first parameter to "poly-sync-mp-2s". That is only a starting point, there are quite a few possible combinations to try. I don't think there is a unique best combination and it will depend on gear, music, mood, etc. For classical/live you can change "poly-sync-mp" to "poly-sync". "mp" stands for minimum phase asnd is suposed to be better with studio recordings.
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Javier
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Post by Javier on Apr 5, 2015 16:12:22 GMT
Ah, OK! sorry Mick. I'd start with Extreme as I understand it will be the "easiest" filter (higher operating point and less sharp roll off) which would be fine with such high sampling rate and then compare to Extended (more aggresive) and finally to Standard which should work best with basic DSD64 (as in non processed SACD).
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