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Post by c61746961 on Oct 24, 2016 2:00:59 GMT
That looks awfully overdamped, next time you could try removing the damping paper behind the magnet or punching a hole on the paper around the back of the diaphragm like most dynamic drivers have.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 24, 2016 5:12:44 GMT
Good catch.
The squarewaves also suggest it is severly damped.
I don't think the treble quality will improve but the bass just might. Will do some experiments when I feel like picking it up again.
As both channels measure the same and reading Tyll's decription of the bass and mids it looks like it is what he heard as well. It is no 'speed monster' as the needle pulse doesn't show a fast rising edge at all. The elevated treble peak might fool people into believing it is.
Tyll mentioned it is 'sharp' which certainly gives the illusion of it being fast.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 24, 2016 9:36:49 GMT
Your guys impressions are quite a bit different from the others I've read. So much so that's why I'm wondering if that particular pair isn't FUBAR. Maybe there was a revision recently that changed the sound for the worse? Bad QC can effect everyone - not sure if you guys are familiar with the earpad gate that happened with some recent batches of Fidelio X2s. Some people got crap ones, mine were fine (other than smelly earpads, but that went away). Personally, I'd try check out another pair (not sure how hard they'd be to audition on your side of the world) and see if the same issues exist before writing them off. On the other hand if a pair this bad can make it to store shelves, it might be better to just back away slowly I agree, I found it very puzzling when I first heard it. My first impression was that it was awful sounding but because of the reviews, I tried really hard to like it. Having had more than 40 years with headphones, I can normally adapt pretty quickly to peculiarities, but this one never settled for me. It has made me feel that there is some kind of bandwagon as far as this one goes. The build makes you feel that it has to be a good one, but as soon as you hear its limitations you wonder why everyone is finding it so good. I even got to the point where I convinced myself that it was a fake but checked the source out. It came from a friend who runs a hifi business. He hates them too!! I then thought that my hearing had gone awol; especially with the he350 that Frans had and mine. I was about to book an appointment with Boots for a hearing test actually, because for me, my hearing is crucial. (Not so much now, but it most certainly was) Even the he350 sounds way more extended in both bass and treble and the he350 bass isn't elevated at all. It could do with a little more and yet, the AT has way less energy down there. Filtered, even the Hifiman with its inbuilt ragged treble sounds better once it has been filtered. There have only been two headphones now that I have struggled with and I prefer the other one. This one which to me sounds dreadful and the Nighthawk, which I could adjust to and accept. Tbh, I was relieved to see Fran's measurement graphs which I brought to the attention of the fan club on HF. So far, no returns, so my guess is that the wagon has been rolling as far as these are concerned. I always go by my gut feeling with headphones and then look at what measurements say in order to compare. Sometimes, a raised bass can 'balance' a raised treble so a headphone sounds great even though measurements point out that they aren't exactly flat. However, the msr7 seems like it has a hump in the middle wth nothing much at either end, except for the jangly nature of the lower treble. Frans sometimes refers to 'false detail' and I'm feeling is that this one has plenty of 'false detail' due to the harsh lower treble. You feel as though you are hearing much more until you swap to something else and you hear slightly more; especially in the extremes. One thing I felt that the msr7 does well is speech. Still a bit toppy, but no bloom and very clear. But that's the mids which on the msr7 is what it seems good at. I really wanted to like these as well TBH. Portable closed headphones is a minefield really!!
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 24, 2016 21:18:24 GMT
[ this review is about a fake ATH-MSR7 as it turned out so keep this in mind]That looks awfully overdamped, next time you could try removing the damping paper behind the magnet or punching a hole on the paper around the back of the diaphragm like most dynamic drivers have. You were right on the money regarding the damping material (not paper but some glassfiber something) around the driver magnet. Opening one of the holes fixed the bass 'problem'. Opening up the center hole did something similar but with a few dB more lows which was way too much. More details and experiment results will follow when I have some time. Unfortunately ... treble is still crap and because the mids/lower treble is not hyped any more but slightly recessed the headphone is now relatively lifeless in the top. Still no high quality treble... just not 'midrangy/shouty/over-dynamic' any more. Instead it sounds more balanced and somewhat subdued in the treble. No more 'razor-like' highs. here is a good review from Katz. [ this review is about a fake ATH-MSR7 as it turned out so keep this in mind]
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 25, 2016 17:53:56 GMT
[ this review is about a fake ATH-MSR7 as it turned out so keep this in mind]I experminented with different holes in the rear of the driver. Fake MSR7, only center hole open, 1 of the driver holes open, both holes open, both holes open and damped with 10mm thick cell foam. It is obvious one hole open is best here. I tried to repeat the 2 holes open + foam at a later stage to hear whether this sits between stock and the modified version but couldn't replicate so recommend to simply open up 1 hole. Of course I could have experimented with something more permeable like toiletpaper or foam over the hole to see if that would work. However, as it is now it is 'fine' to me... tonally... when it comes to bass and mids. Also experimented with different amounts of plies toilet paper. This is 3 ply paper so each sheet consists of 3 thin layers stuck to each other. I don't recommend to do this mod together with the one above.. too dark. stock, 1 ply, 2 plies, 3 pliesInstead of 1 ply of toilet paper one can also use thin felt. The felt also shaves off some of the 2kHz hump. The toilet paper sounds slightly better. I can fully recommend to do the single hole in the area around the magnet only as a good modification. Quite balanced, not a bass monster but somewhat subdued treble which has a weird 'tonality' about it. Cymbals sound 'shusshy' and a bit soft. Voices have a weird sort-of 'rasp' to it which seems disconnected from the voice itself. More enjoyable but still not as good as the better headphones around. At least to me. The sound is rather easy to adjust to. When coming from a headphone with more treble it sounds dull but after 1 or 2 songs you don't notice it. No shrillness or sibilance at all. No nice shimmer nor splashing cymbals either though. [ this review is about a fake ATH-MSR7 as it turned out so keep this in mind]
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 25, 2016 19:36:30 GMT
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 26, 2016 5:07:24 GMT
Interestingly enough Katz's ones are the EXACT same headphones Tyll reviewed. The same headphone Tyll initially put aside as non interesting and finally decided to rave about.
Katz did 'reference' his head constantly with the LCD-X which will show the faults of the MSR7 immediatly. Like he said... the M50X is a far better choice.
Katz also isn't afraid to EQ ... gotta like that guy. He can speak freely as well. No ties with the market. Tyll has... because he is the best known reviewer.
Looking at LR matching I don't think these sound different than other ones out there though. Will try to find them locally and have a listen again.
Yes, one channel was bodgy but fixed that.
Interestingly enough with the extra hole in the driver the bass measures the same as Tyll's and GE's now. Maybe there are drivers around with a hole ? Who knows ?
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 26, 2016 6:34:00 GMT
His review had me in stitches! Very funny. Tyll might get him off the site quick now......
I went straight to Tyll's review afterwards which tells you how good they are.
So either hearing is massively variable or someone is being nice!
Even the he350 shows its faults immediately!!!!!
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Post by tommo21 on Oct 26, 2016 6:55:51 GMT
I think that these MSR7 splits opinion down the middle, you either hate them or love them....I love mine, but I don't use them much any more. At the moment I quite enjoy my ATH-M40x with my Schiit Vali 2 setup at work. I've gone off mid and higher tier cans, and really enjoying music with these cheaper ones like the M40x and HD662EVO. OK I got the T90 at home, but that's about it.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 26, 2016 7:11:04 GMT
Both complain about the MSR7 being light in the bass. Everyone says it, but neither Tyll's nor GE's plots seem to show it. Most agree the treble is weird yet not piercing. The 'extreme clarity' and 'perceived high speed' is all due to the elevated mids and the 7kHz peak. The squarewaves showed it isn't a fast driver at all. It just appears to sound 'fast' with a perceived excellent transient/attack. This headphone shows a slow driver can still be perceived as 'fast'
My plots do have a 'correction' in the lows though so that when the plot is horizontal the headphone is 'tonally accurate'. Marv's plots would show a gradual downwards slope in that case. His B&K 'target' would show up as a horizontal line (more or less) on my plots.
There will still be many people that find it an excellent headphone. Those that are looking for an accurate sound and love extended treble and deep bass should look elsewhere.
I agree with Katz... not worth more than $50 to $100 hyped ... no reason why other than the 'fake tightness and clarity/detail/speed'
The HE350 on the other hand could do with a bit more clarity, would make them even better.
The funny thing is that both (once both are modded) these are easy to 'adjust' to and sound 'good' after a short while until you compare them to each other or reference cans.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 26, 2016 7:32:40 GMT
[ this review is about a fake ATH-MSR7 as it turned out so keep this in mind]
I think the M40X is better 'balanced' and has better treble quality and bass extension than the MSR7
The (slightly modified) HD662-EVO, to me, is more or less the MSR7 but with big bass and much better treble, yet both have good 'clarity'. But at a MUCH smaller price.
[ this review is about a fake ATH-MSR7, as it turned out, so keep this in mind]
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ATH-MSR7
Dec 8, 2016 5:58:26 GMT
via mobile
Post by vampula on Dec 8, 2016 5:58:26 GMT
Its a fake! Driver is not, that supposed to be. Its just cheap Chinese crap, not 45mm m50/70x driver as it must be! Just throw away this garbage.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Dec 8, 2016 6:09:50 GMT
Where do you base the 'fake' on ? There seem to be no fakes of this model reported ? The pictures I can find on the web are exactly the same as the one I made.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Dec 8, 2016 8:08:59 GMT
Its a fake! Driver is not, that supposed to be. Its just cheap Chinese crap, not 45mm m50/70x driver as it must be! Just throw away this garbage. Could you post a link where I can buy a fake to compare?
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ATH-MSR7
Dec 8, 2016 10:28:41 GMT
via mobile
Post by vampula on Dec 8, 2016 10:28:41 GMT
Heard another MSR7 yesterday, from the official importer. Sounded exactly the same. overly clear mids, subdued bass, gentle treble, not smooth/resolving. Where do you base the 'fake' on ? There seem to be no fakes of this model reported ? The pictures I can find on the web are exactly the same as the one I made. Look at the pictures on the box. www.valueheadphones.com/portable-headphones-audio-technica-ath-msr7-headphone-reviews.htmlIt has a driver structure pics, your headphones are defenetly the fake ones. Ive seen super cheap msr7 on ali, thats, what you have.
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