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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2015 14:36:00 GMT
I don't know what I have Ian!
I'm usually quick to form an opinion too. If I don't like something then odds are my impressions won't change. With something I do like that has provisos sometimes I'll learn to adapt and other times I won't....but it's usually the odd 'problem' or two.
With these I don't even know where to begin but right now there are definitely a few things that are starting to come to the fore.
I did start to type what they were but I'm thinking it's too early to really say anything remotely sensible so cut them out. Reading it back it sounds almost like I say one thing and then instantly contradict myself. It also sounds very scathing like I'm trying to do a hatchet job....but I actually really want to like these but I'm not someone who will (or can) make concessions if I genuinely don't.
I've taken a copy and I might post it up once I've spent more time with them. It'll be interesting to see how much my thoughts change....I'm hoping I'll have a eureka! moment and it'll all click into place and I'll see just what Audioquest where aiming for with these. Regardless if I do or don't I'll have respect for them for trying to do something a littel bit different rather than follow the herd.
I know there are people who genuinely enjoy these and don't have any ulterior motive for saying so I considered both their views and those of the detractors before buying. Reviews didn't get much of a look in unless it was written by someone whose opinion / integrity I trust (not many). I think these are just a headphone that will divide opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2015 14:37:29 GMT
It's ironic that the one headphone currently on the market which I'd happily want to change the cable on should come from a company better known for it's.. cables. Even if they do sound fantastic I couldn't live with the cables it's supplied with. Pity we can't get you up here with those Nighthawk's though Mark. I would really like to hear those. I'm still hoping we can do it Gordon! I would love to get a second opinion on these. You tell me they're okay and I'll just enjoy them rather than trying to glue pieces of mental spaghetti together
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Nov 27, 2015 15:08:22 GMT
I see the people at What HIFi had misgivings about the sound as well.
That's a pity if they're not up to your expectations. Are you able to send them back?
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Post by c61746961 on Nov 27, 2015 15:18:21 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2015 15:26:33 GMT
I bought them used so returning not an option. Got them for a good price so won't lose much if I do sell them on. Who knows they may yet stay as I'm sitting here listening to Tracey Chapman at the moment I'm finding them quite nice. They were bought more as a change of pace headphone for late night listening when I want something a bit more relaxed listen so they may yet fit the bill. That said I've just hedged my bets with a pre-order on something else Edit: see above link. I'm such a sucker for nice looking 'cans!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2015 16:02:12 GMT
Of all the headphone I've previously bought or researched the Nighthawk is receiving the most attention from me. Some of the conclusions I've come to are as follows..
The supplied cables are shite. I'm not talking about musical quality here, they are pretty much universally criticised as being too stiff, too heavy & easily twisted. That is not acceptable, particularly not from a cable company. I mean, come on! But on the subject of sound quality it's worth noting that the vast majority of commentors state that the shorter, reduced-diameter cable sounds worse than the full size cable. Really? It may well be the case but is it credible that a manufacturer (a cable manufacturer, no less) would ship a product that could not be heard at it's best with all the supplied cables? Unless of course said cable manufacturer was trying to ship out some more fat cables as a consequence of the logical connect that fatter cables are better cables. That would bring in the dough.
And still I'm intrigued. Here's why..
The overwhelming view I'm getting is that the Nighthawk colours the music. It's not honest but instead becomes a part of the performance itself. This seems to result in a deep, syrupy darkness that's very probably akin to what introducing valves into the amplification stage does. I like the sound of that.
As an aside.. In the past when I've been building full loudspeaker systems I've always followed the same mantra, mix warmth and detail to taste. That works pretty well for loudspeaker systems because unless you do the complete room with acoustic solutions it's always going to be compromised.
Back on track.. Headphone systems can be far more finely tailored because the manufacturer already know the size of the room. They can make that room anything they want to and I think they've went for a dark lounge. I like the sound of that too. And anyway, my loudspeaker logic obviously doesn't work for me because I've paired the warm HD 650 with the warmish Project Ember MkII. If it never gets better than this I'll not be disappointed.
And yet, I'm still intrigued by the Nighthawk.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2015 16:54:51 GMT
The DT1770 Pro looks superb. It's doing well in reviews too. I've always been looking for a really good closed-back pair and the Beyer seem to fit the bill. They're still a bit rich for me but you never know. There are much better options in the price range (The new Tx0RP revisions come to mind for a lot cheaper). Check out the new Fostex Massdrop TH-X00 which will be on sale on friday for $400 USD (more info on SBAF). Things are a bit chaotic here and I missed this. Please accept my apologies. I take your point too, there are some other options.
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Post by c61746961 on Nov 27, 2015 16:59:02 GMT
The overwhelming view I'm getting is that the Nighthawk colours the music. It's not honest but instead becomes a part of the performance itself. This seems to result in a deep, syrupy darkness that's very probably akin to what introducing valves into the amplification stage does. That, or if you're not getting review samples for free you might as well tell it like it is, it's too ****ing bassy, reverby and dark, and you will tire of it. Lots of people selling theirs. They have very good performance in some areas. If they'd just boosted the lows 500Hz lower they'd have a winner. Maybe pad rolling is an option (I'd try the HM5 velours first).
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Post by c61746961 on Nov 27, 2015 17:00:36 GMT
There are much better options in the price range (The new Tx0RP revisions come to mind for a lot cheaper). Check out the new Fostex Massdrop TH-X00 which will be on sale on friday for $400 USD (more info on SBAF). Things are a bit chaotic here and I missed this. Please accept my apologies. I take your point too, there are some other options. If you're still interested in the 1770's, they're on sale now.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2015 17:04:56 GMT
Things are a bit chaotic here and I missed this. Please accept my apologies. I take your point too, there are some other options. If you're still interested in the 1770's, they're on sale now. Where?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2015 17:43:50 GMT
Amazon.com by the looks of things so probably not a great deal for you Gordon.
After importing you'd likely only be saving £35 on the Amazon UK price and imho a UK/EU warranty and easy returns are worth more.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2015 17:44:50 GMT
btw did I say how great the NH is? I'll do you a good deal on a vgc pair if interested (only kidding of course)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2015 22:03:31 GMT
Amazon.com by the looks of things so probably not a great deal for you Gordon. After importing you'd likely only be saving £35 on the Amazon UK price and imho a UK/EU warranty and easy returns are worth more. Scrub that. In addition to being sold below rrp I just saw on head-fi that there's a discount code you can use during checkout to knock a further 20% off: MUSIC20OFF (nb. today only). Amazon charge customs fees up front so the price you see during checkout is the price you pay. No nasty cards through the door demanding £x before you get your parcel. Should work out around £330 delivered so about £100 off the Amazon UK price. Not bad at all.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2015 22:38:32 GMT
Kudos to Audioquest on having a sensible warranty policy. Reading the literature it seems its fully transferable and subsequent owners are covered as long as they have a copy of the original purchase receipt (must have originally been bought from an authorised dealer).
btw Gordon there's actually a page in the literature written by the cable designer explaining his reasoning for 2 cables and why one is inferiorThe general gist is that the they couldn't make a more traditional headphone cable that passed their 5,000 bend whilst preserving the sound he wanted, so in the end he settled for the thicker less flexible cable. The downside it is only tested to withstand 2,000 bends. Should last a lifetime they claim but they include the thin one as a spare (that ones good for 12,000 bends) in case its ever needed or if you're the sort of person who regularly likes to roll up or wrap your cables round your headphones. Make of that what you will.
For me personally one cable in the box would've been enough. You are right though that the 'audiophile' cable isn't without its own issues and mine came with a few twists / kinks in it. I don't think that's as a result of any kind of abuse from previous owners as they are otherwise pristine and I think the main issue is that the cable is simply not very flexible. I wouldn't be surprised if some or all of them where caused when the cable was originally packed up. It's also flat and I passionately dislike flat cables.....I blame Final and their Heaven series IEMs for that though.
As a package I can't really fault the Nighthawk. 2 cables, nicely produced literature, cleaning cloth and a very practical transport / storage case. Of course if the headphones don't deliver that's all irrelevant and in that respect the jury's still out.
(* AQ are not alone in this. Focal's portable cables suck in comparison to their desktop / studio cables).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2015 1:32:47 GMT
I think Audioquest were the first to market a flat cable in the F-14 speaker cable. When it came off the reel it was lovely but it didn't take long for the kinks & creases to appear. Awful stuff. Then DNM came along with some lovely flat cable with the two cores sepaarated by a much bigger gap. Those were very good cables.
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