Crispy
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Post by Crispy on Oct 29, 2015 20:58:24 GMT
Both types can be used but the single primary ones will save you having to solder more wires together. 2 of the single primary traffos are on their way Frans, and may be with me tomoro  I will send them on as soon as possible for you to measure. I was thinking about the boards and how best to accomodate everything and came up with this for now as a prototype. Re-positioning the input traffos where the Audio traffo was:  Then positioning the toroids on top, stacking them if I need to?  What would be a good material to make the toroid support from, wood or aluminium? |
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 29, 2015 22:04:37 GMT
Wood seems to me the most logical thing.
I would try the transformers first and have a listen to the stat alone.
If that sounds O.K. in the treble department then you don't have to measure them.
If it doesn't then you can send one of the traffos to me and I can measure it to see if the trafo is O.K..
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Crispy
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Post by Crispy on Oct 31, 2015 20:17:20 GMT
Wood seems to me the most logical thing. OK Wood it is then  I would try the transformers first and have a listen to the stat alone. If that sounds O.K. in the treble department then you don't have to measure them. If it doesn't then you can send one of the traffos to me and I can measure it to see if the trafo is O.K.. Hmmmm problem here Frans, I only odered a couple of transformers because I thought you said you needed a couple to measure and there would be no point ordering more until you had measured them. Looks like you only need one now? Anyway, no big deal eh. Do you still want me to send you one to measure? |
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 31, 2015 22:36:09 GMT
You need at least 2 in order to check if the sound on the stat is O.K.
Only when you feel you are missing the top end of the frequency response and you want to make sure it is the traffo or not then I need just one to measure it.
You will need 4, maybe 6 per speaker when you are going to use the woofer as well.
First use 2 and measure the output voltage of these 2 transformers and then I can calculate how to proceed and get (close) to 1:130 ratio.
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Crispy
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Post by Crispy on Nov 3, 2015 15:11:23 GMT
You need at least 2 in order to check if the sound on the stat is O.K. Only when you feel you are missing the top end of the frequency response and you want to make sure it is the traffo or not then I need just one to measure it. You will need 4, maybe 6 per speaker when you are going to use the woofer as well. First use 2 and measure the output voltage of these 2 transformers and then I can calculate how to proceed and get (close) to 1:130 ratio. I am not sure if the stats are in good working order Frans and one is stripped down anyway. I think I would prefer you to measure one traffo for me, before I go any further as I would really like to get the electronics sorted before I do anything else. Or is it possible for me to measure one or do you need special equipment? Progress: Input traffos soldered in.  Ended up with aluminium toriod supports.  toriod not connected but sat there to give me an idea  The enclosure from the front.  I now need to check they will fit in the speaker enclosures? |
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Post by solderdude on Nov 3, 2015 17:46:02 GMT
To test the trafos you will need at least 2 (when using it with a stat).
You can connect 2 and make a connection to one of the stats and listen to it.
Compare it to the good trafo as well.
And you need to do the 1V input test again to see how much output voltage you have.
To check the FR you need just one.
You will also need a tone generator (or CD with multiple tones) and an oscilloscope or a meter that is known to be able to measure up to 20kHz.
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Crispy
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Post by Crispy on Nov 5, 2015 8:57:56 GMT
To test the trafos you will need at least 2 (when using it with a stat). You can connect 2 and make a connection to one of the stats and listen to it. Compare it to the good trafo as well. And you need to do the 1V input test again to see how much output voltage you have. Cheers Frans, I will do that when I get a chance. I have checked that the new toroid supports fit in the speaker enclosure, so one problem out of the way. Next problem is how do I wire the 2 traffos up? You can see from the pic below how I have temporarily positioned the traffos and and made them tidy.  What I need to do next is wire everything up. I want to permantly connect the wires to the board and leave the board in place if possible, then connect the wires to the terminal block and obviously then connect the traffos up correctly to the terminal block. So could you please edit the pic below for me showing which wire goes where?  Thanks |
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Post by solderdude on Nov 5, 2015 16:39:21 GMT
You should try the 2 trafo setup first. Measure the output voltage with 1V in and we will take it from there.  below the 2 trafo config:  You should try with 1 and 2 connected only first (leave 3 and 4 unconnected (isolate them to be sure) Measure the output between W and B Then connect 3 and 4 to 1 and 2 as well and measure the voltage between W and B again. Below is the 4 trafo config:  |
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Crispy
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Post by Crispy on Nov 7, 2015 19:35:59 GMT
You should try the 2 trafo setup first. Measure the output voltage with 1V in and we will take it from there. below the 2 trafo config: You should try with 1 and 2 connected only first (leave 3 and 4 unconnected (isolate them to be sure) Measure the output between W and B Then connect 3 and 4 to 1 and 2 as well and measure the voltage between W and B again thanks Frans, I will try and find some spare time now to get that sorted. |
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Crispy
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Post by Crispy on Nov 27, 2015 20:13:11 GMT
Ok Frans, I have been extra busy lately but I finally got around to measuring the two Traffo's.  1V input into the two toriods resulted in the above reading. So I am guessing from that reading I would need 5 traffo's to achieve 129 or 6 to achieve 154.8? Which would be the better option 5 or 6? BTW anybody reading this who lives in the London area and might be interested in a pair of Final 03, there is a pair on E-Bay at the moment? currently bidding @ £113 with 23 hours left. I was seriously tempted to say sod it and buy a working pair, but where is the fun in that  also pick up only would have been a problem. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Final-0-3-Electrostatic-Hybrid-Speakers-electrostatic-electrostatics-/181940559575?hash=item2a5c809ed7:g:OIEAAOSwAYtWHoHw |
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Post by solderdude on Nov 27, 2015 20:42:00 GMT
What happens if you connect 3 and 4 as well ?
One would expect around 75V with 1V in
You need about 130V and must use an even amount of trafo's.
with 6 trafo's the output voltage should be around 150V which will be fine.
Do you have enough space for 6 of them ?
With 4 of them the output voltage will be around 100V which may be a bit too low.
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Crispy
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Post by Crispy on Nov 28, 2015 19:18:47 GMT
What happens if you connect 3 and 4 as well ? One would expect around 75V with 1V in You need about 130V and must use an even amount of trafo's. with 6 trafo's the output voltage should be around 150V which will be fine. Do you have enough space for 6 of them ? With 4 of them the output voltage will be around 100V which may be a bit too low. Sorry Frans I don't have a third or fourth toroid yet, they only had two in stock when I ordered them.  6 per speaker sounds good to me and I think I can stack two on top of the rear two as I am pretty sure there is enough headroom inside the bass enclosure? Anyway birthday coming up shortly so I will have an influx of money to hopefully be able to get the other ten ordered? Before I order them, can I send you one to measure? I am curious what the frequency range is of these toroids. Thanks Chris |
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Post by solderdude on Nov 28, 2015 19:56:04 GMT
Before I order them, can I send you one to measure? I am curious what the frequency range is of these toroids. Thanks Chris Sure |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2015 22:24:42 GMT
Chris, after having looked at pics of these speakers they look (to my eyes at least) much sleeker and sexier than ML's. You will definitely have to give us a few lines on how they sound when you get up and running finally - and you are surely pretty close now. I've always fancied listening to an electrostatic to see what the fuss was about? P.S. problem is my amp has a power output of around 28-to-30 watts, and most stat's like a serious amount of power. Sigh  |
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Crispy
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Post by Crispy on Dec 1, 2015 21:11:46 GMT
Chris, after having looked at pics of these speakers they look (to my eyes at least) much sleeker and sexier than ML's. You will definitely have to give us a few lines on how they sound when you get up and running finally - and you are surely pretty close now. I've always fancied listening to an electrostatic to see what the fuss was about? P.S. problem is my amp has a power output of around 28-to-30 watts, and most stat's like a serious amount of power. Sigh I agree Jeff that these speakers are much sleeker than the ML's and do not intrude on the listening room as much, in fact they have an almost identical footprint as my brilliant AE1 loudspeakers, just a tad higher. I will definitely give a review once I eventually get them up and running, which at the moment is nowhere near, I can't find the time - too much work  but one thing is for sure they have got a very difficult task in being significantly better than my AE1's - such a hard act to follow, true monitors  I suggest you book an audition with a Quad dealer and have a listen (don't have to buy) at there electrostatics - the soundstage is stunning, very realistic when set up right and driven by the right front end. Once you have heard a pair that is set up correctly you will simply want a pair. Amps to drive - them I don't think they need serious amounts of power but serious voltage? Frans will probably put us both right here |
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also pick up only would have been a problem.
but one thing is for sure they have got a very difficult task in being significantly better than my AE1's - such a hard act to follow, true monitors 