Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Aug 26, 2015 12:36:09 GMT
Got hold of a k702 to compare.
My memory of the k701 is not what I'm getting from a k702. I really do wonder whether the 7** series (as well as the 5**) series have been slightly altered since they came out. I have bought a few k550s for pupils now and they have all sounded slightly warmer than one of my originals. It resulted in me getting a newer k550.
Well, the k702 seems similarly 'warmer'. Or I'm starting to lose the top end more nowadays with my hearing.
My understanding was that the k702 was a k701 with a removable cable and different pads. (Also different colour) to me, it sounds less plasticky than the old k701 and is more natural sounding. It has less bottom end than my k712 which I've got with me. The k712 is smoother with a bigger bass, but the k702 is really quite good as well.
The removable cable is useful since you can easily swap out to whatever you want and unlike the Beyers, no screwdriver is necessary. You can get very long runs cheaply as well, so no extension cable is needed or even (as I have) a short 1.2m cable to use portable. My collection of leads with mini xlr plugs is pretty wide so I just fit what I need.
I do wonder whether AKG are doing some minor tweaks to the sound or whether my ears are changing!!!
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oldson
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Post by oldson on Aug 27, 2015 18:21:20 GMT
i quite fancy trying these myself in the future, along with the hd-650. typically there is a used set come up now at a tempting price! i cant go for it at the moment , but if anyone here is interested here is the link to the sale.... www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=177182
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Aug 27, 2015 19:11:26 GMT
Personally, I think they are a great alternative, Simon.
The stereo width is wider. Deeper bass without filter, but leaner sounding. Bit more edge in the top, but much smoother than a K702. I have seen reports making out that the K712 and K702 are similar. They're not . The K712 is way smoother with stronger bass and, believe it or not, more Senn like in sound.
The K702 is good, but the 712 is better. I don't know about the k7xx Massdrop version, which many are saying sound the same.
You need to have both to compare and then the differences are very obvious. Without both, they are kind of similar if you're going by memory.
They are very revealing in that if the source doesn't send proper bass, you don't get any in the headphone where the unfiltered Senn does put a 'bloom' over the music so that it 'sounds' more pleasant on thinner source material.
I noticed that some dab stations sound really awful on the k712 but coming from Freeview, they sound terrific. I did some research today since I'm having a break from travelling and found that Freeview broadcast at a higher bit rate. I'm hearing it on the K712. It's more focused and shows a greater dynamic range. Even Radio 2!!!!
It is fast becoming one of my preferred headphones and I'm tempted to look at the k812 now as a result. Price is too high though IMO.
Vocals and speech are spot on with no bloom. Deep bass but only seems to be there if the recording contains it. Tendency to sibilance but again, seems source dependent. It's on the cusp of sibilance perhaps but TV voice via optical into the Ifi Micro is excellent with no sibilance present. Maybe it's one particular frequency that gets hit occasionally that I detect as sibilance. K553 is more sibilant IMO.
The only thing I don't like is the spring mechanism that is loaded by rubber bands. In my eyes, that's a weakness and eventually, the rubber bands get tired. Superglue is the answer, but then, they only fit your head. I have an old K601 that I superglued!
It's a great buy.
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Post by c61746961 on Aug 27, 2015 23:21:53 GMT
Tendency to sibilance but again, seems source dependent. It's on the cusp of sibilance perhaps but TV voice via optical into the Ifi Micro is excellent with no sibilance present. Maybe it's one particular frequency that gets hit occasionally that I detect as sibilance. K553 is more sibilant IMO. Here's a fix for that.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Aug 29, 2015 19:04:21 GMT
Thanks. That must be what I'm hearing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2015 23:38:06 GMT
Ian, do you mind if I ask - which of your amps do you feel pairs best with the K712?
Think I'm about moving the Mojo on and looking for a desktop amp primarily for the K712. Likely leaning towards Polaris or Ember 2 but have heard that the Vali also pairs quite nicely with the K712 so that's quite a cheap option.
Edit: just dug out my old O2 and really surprised at just how good the K712 sound with it. Not quite as warm as the Mojo but there is definitely more air and width to proceedings. The imagining on these 'phones is pretty impressive too!
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Nov 6, 2015 8:39:48 GMT
Tbh, I don't get too hung up about what amp I'm using, Mark. Differences can be very small. After some HF geezer ranting on about the e12a being a great amp with an hd650, I've even used that to listen with from the X3 and X5. The thing is, I find amps pretty consistent in the way that they sound. For instance, the O2 is 'cool' sounding and it stays that way for me with everything that I attach to it. So if you have a warmish headphone, it might help. For me, the Ember works nicely with the K712. It helps to give the AKG a little more 'character' depending on the tube. But the Polaris, for me is more 'honest', although still quite warm. Both slightly mellow the AKG glare in comparison to the O2 or even the MF V8. So, for gutsy, go Ember. For honesty, go Polaris!! (Well, slightly more 'honest')
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2015 15:55:41 GMT
That makes sense Ian. I sometimes think I fixate about amps more than I perhaps should.
I thought the K7XX + Ember pairing was excellent but did feel I wanted more 'honesty' as you put it so perhaps the Polaris is a better bet for me personally.
The O2 is quite an honest amp too I feel and whilst it can be a bit clinical I do find that the V90-DAC as added a touch of musicality and tamed the highs a bit in comparison to the ODAC it replaced. Both of which I think are beneficial as far as the K712 is concerned.
The thing that most surprises me is the amount of detail I'm hearing from the K712 with the O2 and just how wide it sounds. My biggest gripe with the O2 is that it usually feels a touch boxy. Rather than plunge in two feet first I think I'm going to decide whether I really need a new amp primarily for the K712 (O2 is a nice match with my other 'phones that require little amping). That way I could go back to my original plan (before taking a Mojo shaped diversion) and get the Nighthawks instead.
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Deleted
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AKG K712
Nov 6, 2015 16:21:51 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2015 16:21:51 GMT
The really great thing about the O2 - other than its low cost - is its neutrality. If yore genuinely happy with the stock sound of your chosen headphones I see no reason to get anything else. The only caveat I would suggest is that 600 Ohm headphones are out of the question. There's just not enough juice for those. Even 300 Ohm designs (such as my HD 600) are borderline. But to be honest I only noticed problems when I got to compare my own O2 to the Ember & Polaris.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Nov 6, 2015 16:37:30 GMT
At least there are plenty of configurations possible with the Polaris as well. I can match it with almost anything tbh. Iem's aren't the best on them but then I use a Neco or Fiio 12a if I really want an amp with very low impedance headphones.
I agree about the O2 maybe sounding less wide. After I read that and tried it, I don't know if it's the power of suggestion or it is less wide but I got that as well. I also find it a bit squeaky clean sounding, but it is a very good portable amp imo.
Amps for me are mainly for headroom. I don't hear massive differences in sound if I'm honest but I think some give a better dynamic, which both Ember and Polaris do really well. Interestingly, I find the Musical Fidelity V8 a bit less dynamic. Most amps are pretty flat nowadays in any case.
For me, the Polaris does it for medium to high impedance headphones. Less noise than the Ember, but doesn't have the tube rolling. I love the Ember with rock based music and Polaris more with orchestral.
Digital stuff is great direct from the X3 or X5 into the Ifi Micro idsd. That drives anything pretty much. I also have a little battery operated Ifi Nano, but only use it with high impedance headphones because it generates quite a bit of hiss, but it does have a full size socket.
For low impedance I tend to use a Neco with only 2x gain, the O2 because it runs dead quiet or the Fiio E12a because it has a nice 'lucid' sound with quite a lot of power and low noise again.
Loads of choices, but out of the lot, the most configuarable (and so match a lot of headphones) are the Ifi Micro idsd and the Polaris.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2015 18:00:17 GMT
I'm not sure that's entirely fair. I don't have the Polaris here any more but when I did compare the two the Ember won out. I've subsequently secured valves that have only improved the sound. Sure, it's more expensive. Without proper research it's also more expensive but, when you hit it right the sound of the Ember is to die for. Just my opinion though & not looking for an argument.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Nov 6, 2015 19:54:30 GMT
Ooh er...... I didn't mean it to be unfair!! Tbh, I like both equally Gordon and would be hard pushed to choose between them. Polaris isn't as 'tubey' sounding I guess. I've tried them both with around 20 - 30 headphones that vary in sound and impedance, so I've listened to many combos on both. With configuration, I mean things like more gain options and of course, band width adjustments, where the Ember has tube rolling. I definitely prefer the Ember with higher impedance headphones though tbh. Ember works really well with the Senn hd650 actually. Livens it up a bit!
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Post by elysion on Nov 7, 2015 4:13:45 GMT
Got hold of a k702 to compare. My memory of the k701 is not what I'm getting from a k702. I really do wonder whether the 7** series (as well as the 5**) series have been slightly altered since they came out. I have bought a few k550s for pupils now and they have all sounded slightly warmer than one of my originals. It resulted in me getting a newer k550. Well, the k702 seems similarly 'warmer'. Or I'm starting to lose the top end more nowadays with my hearing. My understanding was that the k702 was a k701 with a removable cable and different pads. (Also different colour) to me, it sounds less plasticky than the old k701 and is more natural sounding. It has less bottom end than my k712 which I've got with me. The k712 is smoother with a bigger bass, but the k702 is really quite good as well. The removable cable is useful since you can easily swap out to whatever you want and unlike the Beyers, no screwdriver is necessary. You can get very long runs cheaply as well, so no extension cable is needed or even (as I have) a short 1.2m cable to use portable. My collection of leads with mini xlr plugs is pretty wide so I just fit what I need. I do wonder whether AKG are doing some minor tweaks to the sound or whether my ears are changing!!! I remember the long discussions about K701/K702 we had back on RG very well. Two guesses from my side: IIRC AKG had plans to move production of some 'phones from Austria to elsewhere (Asia?) a few years ago. Maybe this could explain the difference. It is also possible that a "silent" update of the model was done. Remember the driver variants of the HD580/600/580? The older variant of the mentioned Senn's had white drivers and the newer ones had black drivers (or the opposite?). My K702 is "Made in Austria". I still have my K702, but I use it only very seldom since it isn't my taste. No bass and a too sharp treble. But very good for voices and a tremendous soundstage. I have also different cables for my K702. The original straight cable, a coiled AKG cable and a rather expensive VOVOX Sonorus cable. There's no difference between both AKG cables, but the VOVOX Sonorus had even accentuated the problems of the K702's. I do not blame the VOVOX cable for the problems though. The cable seems to be great, but it does highlight the problems even more. Best match for K702 was my X-Can V3 (modded by Mike) with a Little Pinkie and Philips E88CC SQ (Special Quality) tubes (=> Amperex tubes). Unfortunately, my "SQ" tubes have been used already and the condition of the tubes was not optimal (imbalance between channels). I had to replace them with some very good Russian tubes (the best Russians Mike had to sell back then). The K702 did not sound as well with the Russians as with the "SQ" tubes (less bass). The K702 is one of the most comfortable 'phones to wear though, but it is quite bulky. The round earpads are great for my ears and I also appreciate the round earpads of my preferred 'phones (Beyerdynamic DT990 with 250 Ohms) also very much. I love my HD650 almost as much as the DT990, but the oval earpads can be a bit uncomfortable sometimes.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Nov 7, 2015 11:48:24 GMT
I don't find the k702 as bad as I used to at all. There could well have been some 'fine' tuning going on. I noticed last year with the K550, that headphones I was 'mass' buying for my students sounded nicer than mine. At first, I thought placebo because I can't have a new one like them!!!
Actually, I ended up buying a newer one for myself. Just a fraction off the edge ..... Or my hearing is starting to go!!
The K712 is a really nice headphone. It's more mellow than the others. K702 is really good for speech/radio. I have quite a few cables for them as well. The cheaply Pioneer ones are really not bad at all.
One thing with the k712 that is annoying though are the memory foam pads. When not in use, the headphone closes and the bottom of the pads touch. If left for a while, the memory foam forms a flat bottom edge and it remembers the shape for quite a while!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2015 15:30:46 GMT
I've not had that problem as I keep mine on a stand but can imagine that being the case. The pads definitely do bounce back a lot slower than others I've owned.
The comfort on the K712 (& K7XX) is just wonderful though. It's a toss up between that and the Sony MDR MA900 for the best I've owned, although the MA900's comfort is mainly down to its incredibly light weight or lack thereof. The Sony's driver grills do contact the ears though which some find annoying.
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