Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Sept 28, 2017 16:02:54 GMT
Pads aside, I revisited this one today and my goodness, it's an impressive headphone. I'd say very comparable with the hd600 actually.
Pads are still in great condition so they are very comfortable and still hold the drivers away nicely.
Sub bass is a little lower than the Kameleon'd HD650 and it has a mild mid bass hump, plus the usual AKG treble blip but less than the K702 which has less sub bass and a bigger treble blip.
In actual fact, the k712 is quite a 'warm' listen for an AKG and almost like a Senn tbh. There is a very wide sound from them. Much wider than the Senns and you don't get such a three blob feeling so I can see how AKG's get a dedicated fan boys club. The soundstage is better I'd say than the Senns and when not on a Kameleon, the Senn does sound a little 'off' by comparison.
The one thing I don't like about the AKG is the stupid rubber band assembly that tensions the headband. It's going to wear out eventually (as my ex 612 did) I guess when it does, I'll do the same that I did to the k612. Cut the damned elastic off and superglue the cups in place!
They're still not that cheap in the UK at around £200 but I think possibly better value than the hd650 that is now going around £320. I think that an AKG Kameleon'd up would be a better buy in all honesty.
In fact you would gain a better soundstage along perhaps with more sub-bass? Not sure whether the treble blip can be corrected as well by a Kameleon, but it would definitely be a great alternative to the ever increasing in price hd650.
The K702 is close but unfortunately, it is more 'glassy' with less sub bass going on. If a Kameleon could correct this, then it's a very close alternative that's even cheaper at £129.
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AKG K712
Sept 28, 2017 16:28:17 GMT
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Post by marveltone on Sept 28, 2017 16:28:17 GMT
The K7XX is very similar to the 712, from what I've read. I pretty much removed the signature AKG lump by removing the stock foam filters and replacing it with two layers of cheap craft foam and one play of toilet tissue. Took a little air away, but sounds real smooth.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Sept 28, 2017 16:44:38 GMT
What I'm describing though is minutia tbh. The hump or 'blip' in the treble doesn't seem as prominent as on the K702 and it does have a great bass. Just the really lowest octave needs a slight lift. The blip also features a 'suck out' I think as well, so that it has a sharpness while also having a kind of warmth created in the treble. (Maybe like a sine wave wiggle up there?) One I really didn't like because of the treble was the original K701. To me, it seemed a bit 'ringy' somewhere up there in the top end. Made it seem very jangly to me, but maybe that might have been something to do with my ears and some kind of resonance that just didn't suit me.
It's like the Sennheiser ... one that I keep returning to and just can't sell on. The hd650 was the same, except I sold two or three of them and always ended up getting another one. The k712 is a keeper and works way better than I remember when I first got it a couple of years ago.
Just seeing the hd650 price made me try the k712 again since it's £100 cheaper. Even I might hesitate now with the Senn at that price. Once you hit that £300 - £350 mark, something g makes me very hesitant about buying them.
I think the highest I paid for one is around £175. The cheapest one I got was free!!! £320 is getting a bit steep.
I'm just listening to some Frank Sinatra stuff at the moment and unfortunately, it gets a bit mangled on the k712. In those days, the extreme left and right were almost treated as separate room!!! So you get a bass in one ear which immediately drops the perceived level of bass to very little. On the AKG, that means there is virtually no bass and all the bottom end gets leeched away.
Why on earth they did they do this? I know that there were problems with the number of tracks available so bouncing tracks was a common practice, but personally, I would rather hear mono. Even sticking a softer Mono track on both sides would help it although the width would reduce.....
Thank goodness for a bass boost on some amps!!!
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AKG K712
Sept 29, 2017 0:37:12 GMT
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Post by marveltone on Sept 29, 2017 0:37:12 GMT
I would love to hear a K712/K7XX on Kameleon. Someday, perhaps.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Sept 29, 2017 6:41:38 GMT
The Kameleon makes a lot of difference to my hd650. I'm really not as keen on them without and really would think twice about paying £320 for them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2017 15:15:51 GMT
I have just recently sold the k712 headphones due to what was for me a design flaw, namely the bits of elastic that hold the ear cups........ i enquired about getting the elastics replaced by AKG in the event that they failed and am sad to say that the repair cost was in excess of buying a new pair (can currently be had for £180 ish)..... replacement ear pads were £42.50 each plus shipping too so all in all an excellent sounding pair of headphones but very very pricey to maintain long term. I have replaced them with the AKG K812 headphones as i like the AKG sound, more importantly i paid only half the MSRP for my pair.... The 812 ear pads are roughly £100 per pair and are going to last a lot longer than the ones on the K712. The build quality of the K812 is more robust and provided they are looked after should last 15 to 20 years for me with the occasional change of pads. R.I.P. AKG K712 long live AKG K812 .
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 9, 2017 15:26:31 GMT
Yep, AKG pads are very expensive these days and are sold by piece.
The elastic bands can be replaced relatively easy with DIY. Have done this 2 times already but used elastic bands from a crafts store. Costs next to nothing.
Indeed these elastic bands loose their force after a while. They are plain rubber covered with cloth. The rubber simply falls apart. No idea why they didn't use other materials that don't fall apart after a few years.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 9, 2017 15:53:39 GMT
I ended up using superglue on my K612. I just worked out how far down I wanted the cups and then stuck the gripper part to the rod. My K712 is still ok though.
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Javier
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Digital bytes
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Post by Javier on Oct 9, 2017 16:10:59 GMT
I'd need to replace the elastic bands, ear pads (18€ x 2)and probably the head band on my K601 because the transparent plastic bands that hold it to the chasis are broken, all 4. Problem is the cost of buying the parts is almost as much as getting a new K612. Last time I bought earpads for the 501 they cost 7€ a piece (back in 212) now they are asking 16€, obviously they prefer to sell new stuff to stock/sell spare parts.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 9, 2017 16:22:52 GMT
It’s not very good really. The elastic band arrangement is a bit silly and is destined for failure and those transparent bits go brittle over time. It’s a bit off putting when buying the more expensive AKG’s.
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Post by paparazzi on Oct 29, 2017 2:11:38 GMT
I have had the 7XX's since the first buy. I actually expected to take a listen and sell them as I never liked the AKG sound, however I ended up keeping them. Outstanding bargain, comphy and they look dead sexy. I would agree with Ian's take on the 650 vs 712 (If the 712 sounds the same as the 7xx which is what I hear) The 7XX seems to grace the bottom end much better, with the 650 doing everything else slightly better to my ears. Very difficult to choose between the two but generally I do find the 650's on my ears more. But for the price difference, with the 650 being 100% more, the 7XX is an easy choice I do find the cups huge as with other AKG cans. My ears... I would think are normal size... they virtually swim in the cups. With the 650... there is mostly 1 listening position on your head. With the AKG's, they can be slid front to back, up or down a bit which... to my ears can change them. Takes a bit to find the sweet spot. I'm looking to buy the AKG K712, so I have two questions: 1 - How does it behave with EDM and instrumental music ? 2- Is Project Polaris a good option to drive and color your signature ?
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 30, 2017 7:58:54 GMT
Project Polaris matches well with the K712 imo.
I have an Ember as well and although the warmth of tubes is very appealing to many, for me the solid state is a better option.
My reasons are to do with tube colourations verses the relatively cleaner output of the Polaris while the Polaris also has a slightly warm signature in any case. A lot has been written in other places about Schitt amps and although I haven’t got one, I did hear one (can’t remember the model number, but it was a tube amp) and it didn’t really strike me as anything special if I’m honest.
The Ember gives a lot more harmonic content and so ‘sounds’ richer but that is also tube dependant, so if you don’t like the sound, it’s dead easy and very quick to roll another in. I was using a Bugle Boy that slowly got noisier until it got to the point where suddenly, in a quiet passage of music, I noticed the noise. This is one of the things about tubes really. They deteriorate very slowly so that often, you don’t notice until it’s quite drastic.
By nature, tube amps tend to be noisier until you get into megabucks. With low impedance headphones that can be tricky. Sometimes there is a very low level hiss going on, although you have to listen very carefully in order to hear it. Again, that also varies with tubes as well.
The Polaris has more options re matching with headphones and gain. This allows you to slightly ‘trim’ the bass to warm it up by changing the output impedance and if that isn’t enough, you can also narrow the bandwidth which tames treble. For me though, the K712 is such a good headphone that I didn’t really feel the need to alter output impedance on mine but I did lower the gain a little in order to get the vol pot working nicely around the 12 o clock position.
The Polaris and Ember both put out a lot of power effortlessly and there are more options for lowering the gain on the Polaris. It also runs quieter by nature.
So in answer to your question, IMO, the Polaris is a great match in that it is ‘slightly’ warm sounding, has oodles of power for transient response and has a number of options that can reduce the gain to get it working at optimum for the K712.
I’ve recently switched over to a Kameleon and it’s a long time since I altered any settings on the Polaris.
As for the K712; it’s a really nice headphone. Two negatives first ..... the headband arrangement isn’t great and eventually, it will wear out. Using a rubber band to support the cups is a bit daft really and it’s a matter of time. While the pads are big and comfy around the ears, the material that they are made of can be itchy for some people. They are pretty firm and are filled with memory foam or gel. So they keep their shape really well. I love the way that the wires detach easily from the left cup and lock while on. There’s a mini xlr connection which is rather nice. I have different length leads depending on what I’m doing. Pioneer make leads with the same plugs as well.
The sound is great. It extends way down into the bass without having a big mid bass hump. To some, that might make them seem bass light, but they’re not. Very even and no sign of bloat. Again, now I have the Kameleon filter for it, the sub bass has been raised slightly so mine has a little more heft down there. However, from the Polaris, it is extremely good.
The mids are also very even. The biggest problem with them as with most AKG’s is possibly the treble, although imo, the K712 is the smoothest of the bunch. Most AKG’s go slightly ‘nasal’ and have a large peak up there, but the K712 for some reason doesn’t sound quite so AKG like and to me resembles an hd600 more in its smoothness. It still has a little bite in the treble but nothing like the others. In fact, I compared mine with my K702 last night and the K702 definitely has more of a treble sting and less bass.
When I first got my K712, they were an awful price but I managed to get mine at a sale price. Since then, I’ve noticed that they have dropped. IMO, they are a terrific buy although I noticed that the price started to rise again in the UK recently. At one time, they went to around £170 but now I see them at £200. Headphone prices are an annoyance to me. I think many are way too expensive and overblown for what you actually get.
For me, they’re on a level with the hd600 in timbre and finesse. They are more open and have a wider sound field though. That’s the beauty of them and one reason why I often use them instead of the hd600. The hd600 seems more closed in and ‘clouded’ by comparison. The AKG is more airy sounding without the AKG ‘nasal’ sound.
As I said earlier, I’ve switched over to a Kameleon filter which I found slightly odd at first because I was so used to how it sounded previously. In case you don’t know, the Kameleon is an amp that takes an EQ ‘filter’ which in most cases has been based on actual headphone measurements. I don’t think this one has, but to me, in the end, I felt that it did add something to the K712 sound. It lifts the sub bass and takes a little edge off the top. The differences are small, but in the overall picture, they make quite a difference in that for me, rock music could be a bit difficult on the K712,but not now. Gorgeous on orchestral, fantastic on jazz. I had a slight problem with rock but that’s just me. My own real preference (I think) is to have a bass that is slightly higher than neutral for rock which is’t the case with the K712 although it does pull out some of what I call ‘the gut frequencies’ - the ones that you feel when you’re listening live but don’t often get on a headphone. That’s why I think I prefer a lift in the bass.
Anyway, Kameleon and K712 is a great match.
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Post by paparazzi on Oct 30, 2017 15:19:49 GMT
Project Polaris matches well with the K712 imo. I have an Ember as well and although the warmmth of tubes is very appealing to many, for me the solid state is a better option. My reasons are to do with tube colourations verses the relatively cleaner output of the Polaris while the Polaris also has a slightly warm signature in any case. A lot has been written in other places about Schitt amps and although I haven’t got one, I did hear one (can’t remember the model number, but it was a tube amp) and it didn’t really strike me as anything special if I’m honest. The Ember gives a lot more harmonic content and so ‘sounds’ richer but that is also tube dependant, so if you don’t like the sound, it’s dead easy and very quick to roll another in. I was using a Bugle Boy that slowly got noisier until it got to the point where suddenly, in a quiet passage of music, I noticed the noise. This is one of the things about tubes really. They deteriorate very slowly so that often, you don’t notice until it’s quite drastic. By nature, tube amps tend to be noisier until you get into megabucks. With low impedance headphones that can be tricky. Sometimes there is a very low level hiss going on, although you have to listen very carefully in order to hear it. Again, that also varies with tubes as well. The Polaris has more options re matching with headphones and gain. This allows you to slightly ‘trim’ the bass to warm it up by changing the output impedance and if that isn’t enough, you can also narrow the bandwidth which tames treble. For me though, the K712 is such a good headphone that I didn’t really feel the need to alter output impedance on mine but I did lower the gain a little in order to get the vol pot working nicely around the 12 o clock position. The Polaris and Ember both put out a lot of power effortlessly and there are more options for lowering the gain on the Polaris. It also runs quieter by nature. So in answer to your question, IMO, the Polaris is a great match in that it is ‘slightly’ warm sounding, has oodles of power for transient response and has a number of options that can reduce the gain to get it working at optimum for the K712. I’ve recently switched over to a Kameleon and it’s a long time since I altered any settings on the Polaris. As for the K712; it’s a really nice headphone. Two negatives first ..... the headband arrangement isn’t great and eventually, it will wear out. Using a rubber band to support the cups is a bit daft really and it’s a matter of time. While the pads are big and comfy around the ears, the material that they are made of can be itchy for some people. They are pretty firm and are filled with memory foam or gel. So they keep their shape really well. I love the way that the wires detach easily from the left cup and lock while on. There’s a mini xlr connection which is rather nice. I have different length leads depending on what I’m doing. Pioneer mad leads with the same plugs as well. The sound is great. It extends way down into the bass without having a big mid bass hump. To some, that might make them seem bass light, but they’re not. Very even and no sign of bloat. Again, now I have the Kameleon filter for it, the sub bass has been raised slightly so mine has a little more heft down there. However, from the Polaris, it is extremely good. The mids are also very even. The biggest problem with them as with most AKG’s is possibly the treble, although imo, the K712 is the smoothest of the bunch. Most AKG’s go slightly ‘nasal’ and have a large peak up there, but the AKG for some reason doesn’t sound quite so AKG like and to me resembles an hd600 more in its smoothness. It still has a little bite in the treble but nothing like the others. In fact, I compared mine with my K702 last night and the K702 definitely has more of a treble sting and less bass. When I first got my K712, they were an awful price but I managed to get mine at a sale price. Since then, I’ve noticed that they have dropped. IMO, they are a terrific buy although I noticed that the price started to rise again in the UK recently. At one time, they went to around £170 but now I see them at £200. Headphone prices are an annoyance to me. I think many are way too expensive and overblown for what you actually get. For me, they’re on a level with the hd600 in timbre and finesse. They are more open and have a wider sound field though. That’s the beauty of them and one reason why I often use them instead of the hd600. The hd600 seems more closed in and ‘clouded’ by comparison. The AKG is more airy sounding without the AKG ‘nasal’ sound. As I said earlier, I’ve switched over to a Kameleon filter which I found slightly odd at first because I was so used to how it sounded previously. In case you don’t know, the Kameleon is an amp that takes an EQ ‘filter’ which in most cases has been based on actual headphone measurements. I don’t think this one has, but to me, in the end, I felt that it did add something to the K712 sound. It lifts the sub bass and takes a little edge off the top. The differences are small, but in the overall picture, they make quite a difference in that for me, rock music could be a bit difficult on the K712,but not now. Gorgeous on orchestral, fantastic on jazz. I had a slight problem with rock but that’s just me. My own real preference (I think) is to have a bass that is slightly higher than neutral for rock which is’t the case with the K712 although it does pull out some of what I call ‘the gut frequencies’ - the ones that you feel when you’re listening live but don’t often get on a headphone. That’s why I think I prefer a lift in the bass. Anyway, Kameleon and K712 is a great match. Forgive my ignorance, is that I have no experience with HI-FI equipment, the little I know and the internet u learned by reading, but by what I was told the "heat" that Polaris produces could reduce the stage of the AKG K712, is it true? And how exactly does Polaris change the sound, maybe it slightly increases the bass or the middle? not that I'm a basshead but I think this would be good on more neutral headphones, and by taking the versatility it offers, do you really believe that this amp offers the best sound quality for an SS at this price range? Now correlation to kamaleon, well it has puzzled me, it is a mixer of amplifier with equalizer for what you said, so just put the filter designed for a particular headphone and it corrects the imperfections? But can this kind of equalization be done with some computer program or is this something that only kamaleon can do?
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 30, 2017 16:39:02 GMT
The Polaris is a solid state amplifier and doesn’t get hot.
The Polaris changes the sound by altering the output impedance of the amp. If you raise the output impedance, the result can be a slightly raised bass depending on the headphone impedance and matching with the amp.
I think that the Polaris is a great option for the K712 personally. It delivers a lot of power so that transient response is great due to there being a lot of headroom.
The Kameleon is an amp with eq inbuilt for each headphone individually. The difference is that the inbuilt eq is based on measurements and targets the most offensive peaks more accurately than you can do it yourself.
Having said that, yes, you could do it yourself, but you would need to know the frequencies and the width of the adjustment with a parametric equaliser.
So in answer to your original question, IMO the Polaris is a good option for the K712. I added an alternative in the Kameleon, because later on, a separate unit can be added to the Polaris from Garageamps and you would also have a Kameleon in line which improves it even more.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 30, 2017 16:41:35 GMT
The Polaris produces no heat... It can provide a lot of power which can produce heat in the voicecoil
The K712 is rated at 200mW (continuous) at which point it produces 116dB which is loud ! very loud. Peak (as in music peak) power is much higher and is what the extra headroom is for. Peak power may be as much as 0.5W. At that point you will have thrown your headphones off already !
Don't worry... it would only be a problem when you are going to use a headphone as desktop loudspeakers.
Bass or mids nor treble are increased. The frequency range remains completely flat as with all amplifiers. It is the amount of added 2nd harmonics that provide some coloration to the sound which is VERY subtle. Don't expect much more bass. You can alter the bass a bit by changing the output resistance. In this case the sound if fuller and max output power is reduced as well. Other amps do not have this feature, at least not in this price range.
Polaris can drive most headphones around with ease which also not all amps can do.
Kameleon is either a portable amp or a desktop amp or a device that can be connected before any headphone amp. You can do the same with software BUT you need processing power. When using vinyl, tapes, CD players or other sources that do not have the processing power OR want to keep the digital signal pure this analog dedicated equalizer can be a solution when you are NOT completely satisfied with certain headphones.
hmm crossposted with rabbit
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