Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 30, 2017 16:55:10 GMT
Basically said the same!! Never occurred to me that heat could build up in a headphone .... you’d blow your head off first!! I think using a commercial type of headphone with thin wiring as speakers would be a bit daft in any case. Maybe the DT150 with it’s thicker coils but then with that comes the trade off in the treble ...... So it’s quite weird that anyone would suggest that a Polaris would heat up a K712 tbh.
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Post by paparazzi on Oct 30, 2017 16:56:30 GMT
I chose Polaris because of the softness it can provide because the only thing I want is to relax and enjoy the music, so I believe this is the right choice, now as for the dac I chose the Schiit Modi Multibit, or you have Another problem for dacs of up to 300 dollars ?
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 30, 2017 16:59:29 GMT
No, I don’t have any problems with DACs. It was bad enough for me to pay £400 for an Ifi amp/dac. Just headphones ..... because I’m very aware of the current trend to charge as much as they can for not really (in most cases) a tremendous improvement. In fact, some of the cheaper headphones modded are way better value and we have an expert on here to help us!,
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Post by paparazzi on Oct 30, 2017 16:59:57 GMT
Basically said the same!! Never occurred to me that heat could build up in a headphone .... you’d blow your head off first!! I think using a commercial type of headphone with thin wiring as speakers would be a bit daft in any case. Maybe the DT150 with it’s thicker coils but then with that comes the trade off in the treble ...... So it’s quite weird that anyone would suggest that a Polaris would heat up a K712 tbh. Warm ? Are you referring to temperature ? Because I was referring to the sound, that is the coloring of JFET, maybe it is the Google translator that has changed what I said since English is not my language.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 30, 2017 17:07:28 GMT
Oh, OK......I think that the confusion stems from what you wrote earlier ......
Forgive my ignorance, is that I have no experience with HI-FI equipment, the little I know and the internet u learned by reading, but by what I was told the "heat" that Polaris produces could reduce the stage of the AKG K712, is it true? And how exactly does Polaris change the sound, maybe it slightly increases the bass or the middle? not that I'm a basshead but I think this would be good on more neutral headphones, and by taking the versatility it offers, do you really believe that this amp offers the best sound quality for an SS at this price range?
By ‘heat’ do you mean the headphone heating up or the warmth of th sound?
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Post by paparazzi on Oct 30, 2017 17:36:51 GMT
The "heat" I mentioned is the heat of sound, the harmonic distortion of the JFET, (maybe it's the wrong term) but I was concerned about how Polaris can affect the sound thanks to this harmonic distortion, the words you read now are not mine but a person I was talking to in Head-Fi:
"DavidA: Polaris is not known to give a sound to a wider sound signature, it will probably reduce the size of the K712 sound stage if it's like Ember, it's where Lyr2 + Bimby and UD-301 are a little better than Polaris and Ember. "
Now it's me again, those were his words and that worried me because I do not expect Polaris to work miracles, I want it to make the sound softer and not fatiguing, if it gives to improve something then it will be even better I do not want it to get any worse, and I'm looking forward to buying the AKG K712 just for this stage of sound that is said to be pretty broad.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 30, 2017 17:45:58 GMT
Well, to be honest, what DavidA is saying doesn’t seem to make sense to me.
The amp doesn’t increase or decrease soundstage as far as I know.
I also disagree (and don’t understand) about a Polaris not being known to give a sound to a wider sound signature ....... I have no idea what that means.
Is English his second language as well?
The Polaris is a warmish sounding amp with a really large amount of power. So the benefits are better headroom and a ‘rosy’ kind of sound. It’s not harsh or clinical. I have no idea what DavidA is talking about.
The designer of the amp is in fact Solderdude so if you have technical queries, then he’s your man.
Be careful perhaps of Headfi where people make these statements that quite honestly, stagger me. I actually have no clue what DavidA is saying and why he thinks that a Polaris would shrink the soundstage. Most odd.
It reads a bit like the blind leading the blind to me.............
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Post by paparazzi on Oct 30, 2017 18:30:39 GMT
I understood, but as for the cable attenuator, do you think it improves the sound of 712 or not the need to have it ?
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 30, 2017 18:45:49 GMT
Which cable attenuator?
I think perhaps you might be over thinking everything.
In answer to your question about the Polaris, it suits it well and drives it with ease. You need nothing else. Just the headphone and amp.
At a later stage, if you want, you can improve the timbre of the headphone by connecting a Kameleon before the amp, which would sort out some of the anomalies of the K712.
However, the K712 is a very good headphone so the changes from a Kameleon are quite subtle.
Go with whatever dac takes your fancy if you want a dac. I bet that you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between most dac’s in any case unless they’re extremely poor.
Be careful of people on a Headfi making these sweeping comments. I really have no idea what that guy means by those statements and what he is saying almost looks misleading.
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Post by paparazzi on Oct 30, 2017 20:37:01 GMT
I saw the video you made about Polaris and Ember, you might as well make one about Kamaleon, I did not see anything but pictures about him.
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jello
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Post by jello on Oct 30, 2017 20:43:13 GMT
Can't imagine there being any need for an attenuator cable with the K712. Certainly not to improve sound quality.
Modi Multibit = solid choice. Won't get in the way.
Ember(2) / Polaris / Lyr(2). All solid amps and none are imho bad choices for this headphone. Personal preference would be the Lyr 2 prices being equal. Not to say it is a better amp, just that I like this particular pairing more.
In fairness to DavidA his comment may not be fully in the context it was originally intended. Don't know about Ember making the soundstage smaller per se but do agree that the Lyr does have a slightly more open presentation by comparison. And should be noted that he says the soundstage on the Lyr 2 is an area he feels is a little better, so not making any drastic claims.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 30, 2017 22:02:07 GMT
Was he describing the treble presentation, Mark? I know David quite well on there and found that a bit surprising tbh. I find him pretty balanced generally in his descriptions, but as you say, that might well have been taken out of context. Sometimes a more treble laden response might account for someone saying that something has a 'wider' soundstage when in fact, they mean that it has more treble.
I can't really see amps at this level being so different in soundstage. I'd have thought moreso for headphones, but not amps. the Lyr 2 is a tube amp isn't it? I'd have thought the Ember had more similarities.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 30, 2017 22:06:58 GMT
I saw the video you made about Polaris and Ember, you might as well make one about Kamaleon, I did not see anything but pictures about him. I'm not sure what you mean. You didn't see anything but pictures about who? The two videos that I made are just intros to the Ember and Polaris. It looks to me as though you might need more info on the differences between tube hybrid amps and solid state amps before making a choice. I guess the Ember and Lyr 2 must be more comparable, but you asked about the Polaris with the K712 which is a combo that I have used a lot until recently, when I replaced the Polaris with a Kameleon as far as the K712 goes. Amp differences tend to be very small. Headphone differences are huge so you are almost splitting hairs I think. I'm also not sure that your English is saying what you actually mean so it is a little confusing. OH ..... I understand.You saw my Ember video, where I was describing the Ember's low level noise with low impedance headphones? That is true of most tube amps at this kind of price. Generally, tube amps seem to match better with higher impedance headphones. The way to alleviate this is to add an attenuator patch so that hiss is no longer a problem. I haven't been using the K712 with the Ember, I've been using the Polaris which runs quieter anyway. I'm kind of confused about what exactly you're asking tbh.
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jello
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Post by jello on Oct 30, 2017 22:40:20 GMT
Was he describing the treble presentation, Mark? I know David quite well on there and found that a bit surprising tbh. I find him pretty balanced generally in his descriptions, but as you say, that might well have been taken out of context. Sometimes a more treble laden response might account for someone saying that something has a 'wider' soundstage when in fact, they mean that it has more treble. I can't really see amps at this level being so different in soundstage. I'd have thought moreso for headphones, but not amps. the Lyr 2 is a tube amp isn't it? I'd have thought the Ember had more similarities. I'm not sure tbh Ian. With most headphones I tended to find the Lyr to be a little more 'open' whereas the G1217 amps seemed a little more intimate by comparison. I don't think I would attribute that to the treble presentation really so much as the Lyr is overall just being a bit leaner sounding whereas the G1217 pair have more body. Maybe that affects perception of width? Lyr 2 is a solid state / tube hybrid like the Ember (at least in a very broad sense - I'm sure Frans would point out a multitude of differences) but personally I found the Polaris to sound closer to the Ember than the Lyr was. Although the Lyr uses tubes I don't think they colour / influence the sound to anywhere near the same extent as they did with the Ember. Lyr is probably closer to Polaris than Ember in the sense that it sounds like a solid state amp but one with the smoothness that you get with tubes (or a tube buffer). But to put things into context differences between headphones are far greater than differences between amps. I've probably explained this woefully tbh but its much harder to express the differences between amps than it is headphones!! And apologies if I've swapped between past & present tense every two seconds but I currently have the Lyr 2 whereas the G1217 amps have moved onto new homes. Like most of my posts I'll re-read this in the morning with a clear(er) head and cringe I'm sure
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Post by paparazzi on Oct 30, 2017 23:06:06 GMT
I just suggested that you make a video about Kamaleon because I did not find much information about it, but I do know the differences between the solid-state amplifiers, the OTL tube and the hybrid, and I know that the G1217 amplifiers are hybrids except of Polaris that is solid state, and that was precisely why I chose him for his reliability as to Lyr 2, even though I wanted a hybrid I would not buy it because I read that these Schiit amplifiers have a very transparent signature even with the exchange of tubes.
But as for the conversation I had with DavidA I was asking him about the coloration that certain types of amplifiers can cause in the signature of the sound and how this could affect the sound of the AKG K712, and that is the complete answer he gave:
The amount of "coloring" done by most well-designed amplifiers is usually very little or too little, so if the basic sound signature of a headset is not to your liking, do not expect an amplifier to correct it. Many consider the K712 a little on the bright side, so do not expect the Polaris to completely change the K712 to a neutral headset, reducing brightness and adding bass. In addition, Polaris is not known to give a sound to a wider sound signature, it will probably reduce the size of the K712 sound stage if it's like Ember, it's where the Lyr2 + Bimby and the UD-301 are a little better than Polaris and Ember. I've also done a few readings and some say that the K7XX is similar to the K712, but the K712 is a bit brighter, has less bass, but a wider sound stage, according to what you liked above the K7XX can be a best combination for you on the K712.
I know he's a guy who understands the subject as well as you, and I've already asked him a lot of questions, but sometimes he seems to be more subjective than objective.
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