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Post by c61746961 on Mar 11, 2016 17:32:01 GMT
You have to take out the gray foam, on the walls of the lid that holds the foam in place reside the baffle ports, those, in conjunction with the gray foam, act as a pressure-release valve, less holes = more bass.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 11, 2016 17:39:58 GMT
Aaah .... The foams fell out while I was fighting with the pads as wel!! I didn't see the vents. I was looking all over the baffle for them.
I might just try that with the standard pads. Have you tried blocking the cup vents as well? (In effect, making them kind of closed)
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 11, 2016 18:51:33 GMT
GOOD GRIEF!!! Absolutely amazing. The bass appeared with avengeance. I was puzzled about the vents and thought that they must have been the round holes on the plate. I thought that maybe a gauze covered them, but then I looked sideways and saw them!!!
I covered all eight and had a listen. Beyer DT770 level of bass and deep as hell. I opened up two and left it at six. Bass is SO deep. It now matches my T40 bass which I know is very deep. What a gorgeous sound. It doesn't sound constrained or held back at all and bass is tremendous.
It's like a different headphone and now sounds like a serious listen, rather than a middle of the road, 'pleasant' listen, it now kicks like hell.
Not sure if it's just my imagination, but there seems to be a slight change in the mids or lower treble as well. It seems even smoother.
I can't believe the huge difference for such a small adjustment. Why didn't they close the vents I wonder? They really haven't taken advantage of that deep planar bass that is sitting there, dormant in the stock headphone.
I can't think of much else that sounds like this at the same kind of price tbh. It sounds huge.
Even just playing with those ports leaves you with quite an amazing sound. I have a matching pair now, with the T40 and 50. They are quite similar. The T50 has more inbuilt treble though.
What a great headphone it's turned out to be!
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Post by c61746961 on Mar 11, 2016 19:04:07 GMT
I'm glad you're satisfied already , that's what modding is all about. Now I would recommend you do the cosmetic pad part to rescue the mids. I have played with the cup vents, but the biggest impact and ability to tune is offered by playing with the baffle vents, that's what the 'Brain-Dead Simple Mod' is all about.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 11, 2016 19:48:52 GMT
OK. Really got into it this time and went back and forth between my Frans modded and measured T40 and T50.
Found that the bass was just creeping into upper bass a bit too much on voice reproduction, so I started to take take off one by one and compare directly. I hit jackpot on 4 ports open, 4 covered. That seems a good mix of deep, solid bass and non boomy voice.
The difference is quite amazing and the overall sound seems to suddenly become more 'normal' sounding in the treble as well rather than have that peak. It's nowhere near what it was and I have a warm, full bodied headphone.
Why on earth didn't Fostex look into this? They've really missed a trick. You know, little sliding bits of plastic would have made them fully tunable from pretty middly sounding to bass monsters and variations in between to suit all tastes.
I must take a look at my old T50 and see if I can raise the top end.
The mk3 is dead easy to manage though by comparison and makes the T50 a really worthwhile buy. I think some way of measuring the frequency response is a must though because it's easy to accept all 8 options. I just used my T40 as a reference, since Frans measured it when modding so I know it's pretty much right. That modded headphone did the rounds with people I was working with and they all ended up buying one themselves. (Studio guys as well!!) Normally, they're happy to use buckets if they're cheap!!
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Post by c61746961 on Mar 11, 2016 20:58:52 GMT
If you look at the graph I posted for the BSDM you will notice that there's a hump at ~50 Hz that remains regardless of the baffle port tuning, this hump is centered ~100Hz if the cosmetic pad isn't in place. IIRC there are two ways to further lessen/shift this hump:
1) Put tape over the back vent 'slits' and punch an incrementally bigger hole (say, 1, 2, 3mm over one slit) until the bass is strong but not boomy. 2) Open the cups and add a piece of felt or other breathable material over the stock cup vent material (a piece of black fabric) and re-tune the baffle.
I'd recommend you play with the cosmetic pad first and then fine-tune using baffle and cup ports. For the hot treble, the paper tissue works fine with the stock pads.
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 11, 2016 22:10:43 GMT
Ok, so tuning the bass is refined via the blow outs. Thanks. I get it now.
I guess that zmf mod does probably the same kind of thing with a different pad, so the number of vents covered along with how much 'blow out' works in combination with the pads to get it as flat as they can.
The cup vents is also why I got confused about covering or opening the baffle vents. I have done that to my T50 on the outside of the cups and it does indeed, reduce bass bloat.
Mind you, it's extremely good as it is now with the stock pads. There is a bloat so I may start by just covering the top vents where it's not so easily seen but it sounds like the 'blow out' might need to be quite small.
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Post by c61746961 on Mar 11, 2016 22:23:26 GMT
There are many voicings and ways to achieve such tunings, AFAIK Zach voices his headphones with a darkish, consumer-friendly tilt, similar to the TH-X00. Best thing about these is the ability to easily tune to taste.
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 12, 2016 10:11:36 GMT
I woke up this morning with fresh ears so I went down to 'smell the coffee' and try again with the T50mk3. Speech from the radio seemed OK. Just a tad warm perhaps on mens' voices but not enough to warrant me ripping the pads off again and opening another vent.
Slight sibilance on consonants. Again, not that bad that I feel the need to do anything since it does brighten up the timbre overall quite nicely.
So far, I'm happy with its sound.
Comparing with my modded T40 and Senn HD650.
The Senn sounds more 'open' which is hardly surprising given that it has velour pads and is actually more open to the outside, whereas the T50 is semi-open.
The T40 is a fraction warmer in the treble, which one of Fran's filters cleans up. The T50mk3 is slightly brighter but the overall timbre is almost exactly the same. Added brightness or a touch of sibilance going on. (Easily cured if it annoys)
So generally, I feel pretty chuffed with the change in sound. The only thing that would perhaps provide more openness is a change to some more open pads perhaps, but then it would need to be retuned as well. The T40 is also slightly closed in by comparison to the HD650. Slightly more than the T50 without its filter.
Bass levels for me with four ports closed is spot on. Some might prefer even less. I may cover the external blow outs to see if that helps with the 'hump' in the bass, but I'm enjoying it at the moment a great deal since it has a nice combo of bass punch and treble sizzle.
The mk3 seems to be quite a bit easier to modify than the old ones as a result of having this double plated baffle since it's right there when you take the pads off and you are able to very precisely control the amount of leakage/blockage you want until you get the bass level that you feel ok with. I really like that and imo, it's a pity that Fostex didn't incorporate some kind of sliding piece inside to partially or fully block all of those ports in order to allow even easier tuning.
I was very surprised just how much bass it produces when all of the ports are closed in comparison to them all open, so there is loads of adjustment there.
Makes the Mk3 a great buy in all honesty.
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Post by noobhead on Mar 12, 2016 15:56:28 GMT
now I am curious as to whether the baffle mod would work on my fully open th500rp... must resist... did however attempted to eq it by boosting 32Hz by 2.5db tho, on my onkyo app, it did bring out the sub bass by a little... Eq-ing is usually not my bag, but still it wasn't too bad for the electronic music I was listening to
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 12, 2016 16:02:46 GMT
I was really surprised just how easy it was and also how many variations of bass I could get. So many in fact, that I needed my already modded T40 to be able to judge what was a sensible amount. (Plus spoken voice listening for boom)
Does the th500 have a double baffle plate as well? I must admit, it is a nice arrangement for tuning the bass.
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Post by noobhead on Mar 12, 2016 18:05:55 GMT
I was really surprised just how easy it was and also how many variations of bass I could get. So many in fact, that I needed my already modded T40 to be able to judge what was a sensible amount. (Plus spoken voice listening for boom) Does the th500 have a double baffle plate as well? I must admit, it is a nice arrangement for tuning the bass. a dumbass question (on my part): does one have to open the cup to check its baffle?
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Post by c61746961 on Mar 12, 2016 18:07:53 GMT
now I am curious as to whether the baffle mod would work on my fully open th500rp... must resist... Why resist? If it has a similar 'double baffle' with vents there's nothing to lose, it's just tape you can remove.
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Post by c61746961 on Mar 12, 2016 18:14:25 GMT
It looks different: 4.bp.blogspot.com/-rB4fvbFDTro/VQfPqd0qKpI/AAAAAAAAIL4/l0JibxE2YiA/s1600/TH500RP-03.jpgThe vents point to the backside instead of the sides. You may have to add more resistance to the baffle ports where that white paper is, my suggestion is you cut a piece of felt with the shape of the gray foam and put it underneath, aligned. You could also play with tape, but be careful to use one with a weaker adhesive to avoid damaging the paper if you decide to remove it.
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 12, 2016 18:43:19 GMT
Bluetak as a temporary test?
For me, 4 out of 8 closed was about the right amount of bass. (50%) Only do it if the headphone seems bass light though.
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